Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[BlakeRVA]

Okay but just to keep things in perspective... the global footwear industry, its marketing, and its relevance is WAY different than when Jordan Brand started.

Jessica Simpson was doing $1 billion in 2014. With the smallest fraction of the star power that Ye has. And without Adidas as a partner.

Is Jessica Simpson, who was sold in Macy’s and Target all across the mid-West even remotely equivalent to premium streetwear from Yeezy or any other hip-hop adjacent brand? If it’s so easy, why are Kanye and Jordan the only two to ever surpass $1B in sales, but Sean John, Rocawear, Billionaire Boys Club, Golf Wang and others haven’t?

Also, if Adidas just need a celeb endorsement they could have enlisted Drake or Travis Scott and saved themselves hundreds of millions in royalties.

You don’t have to agree with Kanye’s antics or even appreciate his design aesthetic, but I’m so sick of people acting like Kanye or Virgil’s success is illegitimate. Please give them their flowers.

 

[sushijerk]

If there is any credit I give Ye in the fashion space it is that he never sold generic logo clothing with star power behind it. He could have pushed literally anything with success but went with shoe shapes/construction that went against the trend history of hip hop culture and that I'm sure most insiders considered bizarre and unsellable.

I've never bought any Yzy and probably never would but I usually think Kanye looks cool in it, and thought David Letterman looked great in a Yzy outfit when he went to interview Ye at his home.

 

[Epaulet]

Is Jessica Simpson, who was sold in Macy’s and Target all across the mid-West even remotely equivalent to premium streetwear from Yeezy or any other hip-hop adjacent brand? If it’s so easy, why are Kanye and Jordan the only two to ever surpass $1B in sales, but Sean John, Rocawear, Billionaire Boys Club, Golf Wang and others haven’t?

Also, if Adidas just need a celeb endorsement they could have enlisted Drake or Travis Scott and saved themselves hundreds of millions in royalties.

You don’t have to agree with Kanye’s antics or even appreciate his design aesthetic, but I’m so sick of people acting like Kanye or Virgil’s success is illegitimate. Please give them their flowers.

Well first... I admired Virgil a lot and appreciated his work. Seemed like a genuinely good person too, so you won't hear a single criticism like that from me. Not sure who that's directed at. I think that being Ye-adjacent made all the difference in Virgil and Jerry Lorenzo's career, but that doesn't mean that they're not talented. And lots of fashion brands were built off of celebrity connections.

Jessica Simpson is an apt comparison as she's a celebrity who launched a successful shoe line. The stuff is higher priced than Target, but I think that outlets like Macys and Zappos are some of their chief outlets. The point is: that Jordan Brand $1 billion mark isn't some unbelievably unattainable goal that only a unique talent like Yeezus could ever reach. The actress from the "Dukes of Hazzard" did it 8 years ago. Just takes good marketing skills, a solid business partner, and knowing your customer.

I wouldn't put Yeezy in with those other brands simply because Ye is (largely known to be) a hip hop musician. It's definitely a far more serious and far better funded collection than Rocawear. Although... if it wasn't for Adidas, I'd bet good money that it might do less business than Sean John. Only because Ye can't seem to help but continually sabotage himself with his retail collections.

And I don't think that Ye's success is illegitimate. I never said that. Either way, billions of dollars of products with his stamp were sold around the world. If we define legitimate retail success as "people buy the stuff and talk about it," then yes, he's a huge legitimate success. The crazy reseller culture is clear evidence of how desirable his stuff is.

I'm just sharing my opinion that I personally think his clothing designs are derivative and lousy, and I think he's an awful human being. I feel like there's a pretty good amount of evidence for both of those points.

 

[winston86dit]

Virgil was a guy with a blog before he started working for Kanye. Facts

So you’re saying Virgil gained all his creativity by osmosis? That seems, again, like an extremely flawed logic and one that completely takes away the individual talent of the people within Kanye’s orbit.

For instance; Did Kanye only make great music by working with someone like Rick Rubin?

To rip someone of their creativity because of their proximity to someone else is extremely naive. Kanye is talented no doubt, but he is reliant on a cadre of designers, stylists, producers, directors, and handlers, all of whom bring something to the table.

It was a new shape that he created with his cultural power that fueled Yeezy to a billion dollar brand in a blink of an eye. It took Jordan brand about 25 years+ to get to $1B.

I’m sorry but, what does that even mean? A new shape created by culture? None of what has been created for Yeezy is particularly ground breaking. Not that it’s particularly bad either. But creating a sneaker silhouette is something that is quantifiable (last, form, materials, toe shape, etc), which is why I asked the question.

 

[sushijerk]

So you’re saying Virgil gained all his creativity by osmosis? That seems, again, like an extremely flawed logic and one that completely takes away the individual talent of the people within Kanye’s orbit.

For instance; Did Kanye only make great music by working with someone like Rick Rubin?

To rip someone of their creativity because of their proximity to someone else is extremely naive. Kanye is talented no doubt, but he is reliant on a cadre of designers, stylists, producers, directors, and handlers, all of whom bring something to the table.


I’m sorry but, what does that even mean? A new shape created by culture? None of what has been created for Yeezy is particularly ground breaking. Not that it’s particularly bad either. But creating a sneaker silhouette is something that is quantifiable (last, form, materials, toe shape, etc), which is why I asked the question.

While I'm not sure what London means exactly, I think it is pretty fair to say Virgil, as talented and nice as he is, would not have received the attention he did in the top tier of the fashion industry if Kanye was not constantly using his own star power and influence to put him into the scene.

 

[winston86dit]

While I'm not sure what London means exactly, I think it is pretty fair to say Virgil, as talented and nice as he is, would not have received the attention he did in the top tier of the fashion industry if Kanye was not constantly using his own star power and influence to put him into the scene.

That is somewhat understandable but also something that is completely unverifiable. Celebrity matters sure, but it seems dismissive to say that someone couldn’t have made it or been as successful if it weren’t for one man.

 

[winston86dit]

I will also say, one thing Kanye should get a lot of credit for is the creative company he keeps. He’s been particularly good at surrounding himself with talented individuals. He didn’t hire people like Steven Smith because he’s a scrub.

 

[LA Guy]

Is Jessica Simpson, who was sold in Macy’s and Target all across the mid-West even remotely equivalent to premium streetwear from Yeezy or any other hip-hop adjacent brand? If it’s so easy, why are Kanye and Jordan the only two to ever surpass $1B in sales, but Sean John, Rocawear, Billionaire Boys Club, Golf Wang and others haven’t?

Also, if Adidas just need a celeb endorsement they could have enlisted Drake or Travis Scott and saved themselves hundreds of millions in royalties.

You don’t have to agree with Kanye’s antics or even appreciate his design aesthetic, but I’m so sick of people acting like Kanye or Virgil’s success is illegitimate. Please give them their flowers.

To be fair, @Epaulet was contiining to use Jessica Simpson as an example because @London had mentioned that "... his cultural power that fueled Yeezy to a billion dollar brand in a blink of an eye. It took Jordan brand about 25 years+ to get to $1B."

Also, while no one is going to write about the Jessican Simpson's contributions to fashion, from an ethnographic POV, she's significant. It's like... cargo shorts and flip flops. If cargo shorts weren't culturally relevant, they could not be memed.

Frankly, the same goes for Kanye.

I suppose that being compared to each other is probably part of their own personal hell.;

 

[LA Guy]

While I'm not sure what London means exactly, I think it is pretty fair to say Virgil, as talented and nice as he is, would not have received the attention he did in the top tier of the fashion industry if Kanye was not constantly using his own star power and influence to put him into the scene.

This. Virgil definitely was given a lot of clout by Kanye. That takes nothing away from Virgil's talent.

 

[Epaulet]

To be fair, @Epaulet was contiining to use Jessica Simpson as an example because @London had mentioned that "... his cultural power that fueled Yeezy to a billion dollar brand in a blink of an eye. It took Jordan brand about 25 years+ to get to $1B."

Also, while no one is going to write about the Jessican Simpson's contributions to fashion, from an ethnographic POV, she's significant. It's like... cargo shorts and flip flops. If cargo shorts weren't culturally relevant, they could not be memed.

Frankly, the same goes for Kanye.

I suppose that being compared to each other is probably part of their own personal hell.;

Well Jessica Simpson never idiotically ran for President or called slavery "a choice" in the United States or publically harassed her ex, or said "BILL COSBY INNOCENT!!!" or brought Marilyn Manson to her pseudo-church right after a slew of sexual harassment and violence allegations.

So yeah, I could imagine she wouldn't appreciate being compared to him. I think this sums it up nicely...

 

[London]

why the hell are you comparing Kanye to Jessica Simpson first of all?

Well Jessica Simpson never idiotically ran for President or called slavery "a choice" in the United States or publically harassed her ex, or said "BILL COSBY INNOCENT!!!" or brought Marilyn Manson to her pseudo-church right after a slew of sexual harassment and violence allegations.

So yeah, I could imagine she wouldn't appreciate being compared to him. I think this sums it up nicely...

View attachment 1832892

 

[Epaulet]

why the hell are you comparing Kanye to Jessica Simpson first of all?

You mentioned that it took Jordan Brand 25 years to reach $1 billion in annual sales. And how Ye eclipsed that.

I mentioned that Jessica Simpson... another celebrity who entered the footwear arena... did $1 billion in annual sales in 2014. So while the Yeezy collection is certainly a huge success at retail, it's not the only brand to beat that number.

Jessica Simpson is a nice counterpoint because she's just a smart businesswoman who's able do this without the ridiculous hype and anti-social behavior and disrespecting her partners and making her customers jump through hoops that we've come to expect from Ye.

But that dislike is admittedly a personal thing from me. This is the discussion of the fashion industry thread, and from that perspective.. Ye is killing it with sales volume, product sell through, and marketing. Absolutely no denying that. I'm very grateful that I don't have to work with him though.

 

[London]

Jordan and Yeezy are like for like competing for the same customer. Jessica Simpson and Kanye are in totally different worlds and spheres of influence.

You mentioned that it took Jordan Brand 25 years to reach $1 billion in annual sales. And how Ye eclipsed that.

I mentioned that Jessica Simpson... another celebrity who entered the footwear arena... did $1 billion in annual sales in 2014. So while the Yeezy collection is certainly a huge success at retail, it's not the only brand to beat that number.

Jessica Simpson is a nice counterpoint because she's just a smart businesswoman who's able do this without the ridiculous hype and anti-social behavior and disrespecting her partners and making her customers jump through hoops that we've come to expect from Ye.

But that dislike is admittedly a personal thing from me. This is the discussion of the fashion industry thread, and from that perspective.. Ye is killing it with sales volume, product sell through, and marketing. Absolutely no denying that. I'm very grateful that I don't have to work with him though.

 

[double00]

supreme might be a better comparison as a niche streetwear label , more like 500M annual revenue ( although it would be fascinating to see what the products achieve on secondary markets ) , started in 1994 , sold for what 2B ...

 

[London]

supreme might be a better comparison as a niche streetwear label , more like 500M annual revenue ( although it would be fascinating to see what the products achieve on secondary markets ) , started in 1994 , sold for what 2B ...

Yeah secondary markets are a whole different thing that the brands are trying to figure out How to get a piece of.