Darts in shirts

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Omegablogger

If you like darts

I'm playing devils advocate somewhat but there are English shirtmakers older than Italy itself. I think any argument that states that the "Italians do it that way" is a weak one. I don't think it's coincidence that the Italian way normally equates to the easier and cheaper way, regardless of what stylistic advantages they may hold.

It seems that darts are a quick and easy way for a shirtmaker to produce a slim silhouette, the question remains, is it the best way?

You mean modern Italy...because the Romans had production clothing mills / manufactories when England had yet to have a single unified language.

Anyways, there is a shape that can be had utilizing darts (and when I speak of darts on men's shirts I only, ever speak of rear darts), which cannot be had by just pulling and shaping the sides. It's like a jacket, sure shaping can be done by just adjusting and cutting the side seams, but to properly shape the jacket, the rear seam running from the collar to the skirt must be fiddled with as well. Well, darts are to shirts what the rear seam is to a jacket.

Jon.

 

[Omegablogger]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

when England had yet to have a single unified language.


Jon.

We still haven't.

So, just to get this straight, you believe that darts are the best way to achieve a slim fit?

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Omegablogger

We still haven't.

So, just to get this straight, you believe that darts are the best way to achieve a slim fit?
I think that darts are one of the tools that are used in order to create a properly fitting shirt. There are others and they should all be utilized.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I think that darts are one of the tools that are used in order to create a properly fitting shirt. There are others and they should all be utilized.
Darts and side seams - they are all God's children.

 

[Faded501s]

Originally Posted by TheHoff

If you're over 30 and expect a fine shirt to last more than a few years, I'd say the adjustability makes it preferred over a shirt that is cut so precisely as to not allow an additional 15 pounds.

That may be true for some but I fit in the category of "average" which is that once a guy reaches physical maturity, he will on average gain 1 lb a year. FWIW I think darts on a shirt look either effeminate or the "cheap and easy" way to get a slimmer shirt. I've seen too many well-fitting slim-fits without darts to think that adding darts would bring any great benefit. This theory of darts not "throwing off the balance" of a shirt is new to me though and hopefully Shirtmaven will provide some clarification.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Omegablogger

We still haven't.

So, just to get this straight, you believe that darts are the best way to achieve a slim fit?

I think that darts are the best way to achieve a correct silhouette. I don't like the way darts look, but they do have their purpose.

Jon.

 

[kitonbrioni]

When I was in the army many had their shirts fitted with darts. I don't enjoy tight shirts, so it's not an issue with me.

 

[migo]

Just watching On Her Majesty's Secret Service and I noticed Lazenby's shirt is darted when he's at the casino in the beginning.

 

[j]

Originally Posted by migo

Just watching On Her Majesty's Secret Service and I noticed Lazenby's shirt is darted when he's at the casino in the beginning.
Many of Roger Moore's shirts were darted as well, I have noticed.

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

...... Anyways, there is a shape that can be had utilizing darts (and when I speak of darts on men’s shirts I only, ever speak of rear darts), which cannot be had by just pulling and shaping the sides. It’s like a jacket, sure shaping can be done by just adjusting and cutting the side seams, but to properly shape the jacket, the rear seam running from the collar to the skirt must be fiddled with as well. Well, darts are to shirts what the rear seam is to a jacket.

Jon.

I think Jon makes a point here. Not only is shaping on the back of a man's coat achieved by side bodies, in other coats you have the centre seam where you can make the coat follow the curve of the spine. Like the front of the coat, you have the front darts to play with to get the front to follow the body, you also have the two sides of the front coat which the tailor has cut and adjusted to follow the form of the torso.

A man's shirt on the other hand has a ONE PIECE back. Unless you have a relatively straight back or very very slim as another poster pointed out, there is no adjustment points to make the back of the shirt follow the curve of the spine. I have seen some slim fit shirts with no darts, but the area at the small of the back is still looser compared to the upper back, or, it is very creased due to it's tightness.

 

[lefty]

While I can see this looking fine in a solid colour, what does this look like on a heavily patterned shirt?

Anyone have a pic?

Thanks,

lefty

 

[teddieriley]

I just got fitted for a bespoke shirt. Although it seems taking in the side seams gave the shirt a nice, fitted shape, I still had a problem with excess fabric bunching at the small of my back when the shirt was tucked into my trousers. While the upper body (chest and upper back) draped quite nicely, it didn't produce a clean look (when viewed from the side) with the blousing that appeared localized in the lower back area.

I was a bit weary asking to have the sides taken in even more, to risk having less fabric for movement or accommodating my slight gut, especially when sitting for most of the day at work. Looks like darting allows you to target and specifically take in the extra fabric where you dart it, without having to alter the width measurement from side seam to side seam, which will surely begin hugging your waist or love handles, to the extent you have any. I think darts help avoid that problem of too much narrowing the waist where you don't need it, while removing excess fabric in the area that you do.

I suppose if you are absolutely against darts, which some people appear adamant about, I'm sure a good shirtmaker will do his/her best to fulfill your request. I recall someone mentioning (not sure if here or AAAC) that he would prefer that bunching of material in the small of the back rather than putting darts. That's highly a personal choice, but it defeats the purpose of going bespoke or MTM to achieve the clean line that is lacking in most RTW.

I don't find it at all inelegant. Any perceived ill effect it has on the pattern for a check or striped shirt is eclipsed by the fact that you have an awesome fitting shirt. In fact, I think the darting adds a bit of character. Perhaps if you're more of the conservatively dressed business type, darting may not be for you. But I finding acceptable, and I guarantee no one is looking at me and thinking, great fitting shirt, but he sure does look effeminate.

 

[horton]

Originally Posted by T4phage

I think Jon makes a point here. Not only is shaping on the back of a man's coat achieved by side bodies, in other coats you have the centre seam where you can make the coat follow the curve of the spine. Like the front of the coat, you have the front darts to play with to get the front to follow the body, you also have the two sides of the front coat which the tailor has cut and adjusted to follow the form of the torso.

A man's shirt on the other hand has a ONE PIECE back. Unless you have a relatively straight back or very very slim as another poster pointed out, there is no adjustment points to make the back of the shirt follow the curve of the spine. I have seen some slim fit shirts with no darts, but the area at the small of the back is still looser compared to the upper back, or, it is very creased due to it's tightness.


I just had the pleasure of visiting Anna M. On the subject of darts they claimed it was essential for exactly the above reason, to make the shirt fit the curvature of the small of the back

 

[T4phage]

Originally Posted by horton

I just had the pleasure of visiting Anna M. On the subject of darts they claimed it was essential for exactly the above reason, to make the shirt fit the curvature of the small of the back

Great, hope you had a good time at her laboratorio. What did you end up getting if I may be so bold

, there is such a dizzying array of fabrics to choose from!

 

[horton]

I selected about a dozen fabrics, though my initial order will be only 3 so I can check fit and suggest adjustments. All are essentially blue (striped, checked, etc.) except for a white cotton and a white linen. Spread collow, button cuffs. I went for the thinner MOP buttons.

The choice of fabrics was indeed dizzying and all top notch.


I also bought a linen tie and a silk tie.