Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[linafelt]

I posted here because Whites are the only brand that I can compare to. I was hoping someone here that owns a pair of Whites would also own a pair of Lofgrens and would simply advise on a size. Thanks

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to inquire as to sizing of other brands (not chastising!).

Seems fine to me to ask these sorts of comparison questions, which we've always done I believe. It's not as if White's owns the forum. The more info here the better.

Having said that, I am afraid I am of no help comparing to Lofgren.

 

[Frizzleburger]

Seems fine to me to ask these sorts of comparison questions, which we've always done I believe. It's not as if White's owns the forum. The more info here the better.

Having said that, I am afraid I am of no help comparing to Lofgren.

I thank you. I have found my answer already. All is good. From what I gather the two manufacturers are a close match. A 10d in Whites should be close to a 10d in Lofgrens engineers. My order is placed, it is now a waiting game.

 

[ZenSilk]

I posted here because Whites are the only brand that I can compare to. I was hoping someone here that owns a pair of Whites would also own a pair of Lofgrens and would simply advise on a size. Thanks

**Edit** Looks like you got it covered while I was posting!

For sure, sorry to come across in a negative way, sometimes random stuff can result in flaming and I wanted to get inb4 that (possibly) occurred.

The Devil Causeways are going to be built on a last very similar to red wings, I believe something like the Munson. Sizing .5 less than your Brannock is the most recommended sizing choice for the Lofgren engineers. When I tried on Lofgren engineers and black cats the sizing was a bit different, I ended up in a 9 for the engineers (matching my Red Wing IR, Blacksmith, Round toe sizing) and an 8.5 in the Black Cats.

Based on my experience, I recommend you stick with your Red Wing or Whites 55 size, so a 9 in Whites 55 is a 9 in the Lofgren Engineers, .5 off of a Brannock sizing.

The leather used for the Causeways is not used in many boots that are available on the US market, and is commonly used in leather jackets. It will probably be ~3oz, and also lined, so there will be less stretch than unlined boots in the toe and forefoot, but some stretch, or maybe a better word is molding, in the ankle and mid foot area from walking. The horsehide is going to behave differently than the CXL they use, as in the creasing will be different and the toe probably won't collapse as much as CXL, and the boot upper will keep it's structure better. The horsehide is a good choice in my opinion.

It would be safest to have your Causeway boots sized on the tighter side, rather than loose, as they are going to form to your foot fairly drastically. Not swimming in the toes, and your toes not pressing on the sides of the boot, and tight in the ankle adjusting the ankle strap as needed.

 

[Frizzleburger]

**Edit** Looks like you got it covered while I was posting!

For sure, sorry to come across in a negative way, sometimes random stuff can result in flaming and I wanted to get inb4 that (possibly) occurred.

The Devil Causeways are going to be built on a last very similar to red wings, I believe something like the Munson. Sizing .5 less than your Brannock is the most recommended sizing choice for the Lofgren engineers. When I tried on Lofgren engineers and black cats the sizing was a bit different, I ended up in a 9 for the engineers (matching my Red Wing IR, Blacksmith, Round toe sizing) and an 8.5 in the Black Cats.

Based on my experience, I recommend you stick with your Red Wing or Whites 55 size, so a 9 in Whites 55 is a 9 in the Lofgren Engineers, .5 off of a Brannock sizing.

The leather used for the Causeways is not used in many boots that are available on the US market, and is commonly used in leather jackets. It will probably be ~3oz, and also lined, so there will be less stretch than unlined boots in the toe and forefoot, but some stretch, or maybe a better word is molding, in the ankle and mid foot area from walking. The horsehide is going to behave differently than the CXL they use, as in the creasing will be different and the toe probably won't collapse as much as CXL, and the boot upper will keep it's structure better. The horsehide is a good choice in my opinion.

It would be safest to have your Causeway boots sized on the tighter side, rather than loose, as they are going to form to your foot fairly drastically. Not swimming in the toes, and your toes not pressing on the sides of the boot, and tight in the ankle adjusting the ankle strap as needed.

Not a problem. Thanks for the info.

 

[Netvine]

My thoughts on White's lasts and boot profiles...

The toe on the MP is also going to play a part in the top-down silhouette of the boot/last. A structured toe is going to look less narrow, maybe even less pointy for lack of a better word, than an unstructured toe. Same goes for a cap toe vs. unstructured. I would also venture a guess that the weight of the leather may also play a part in this, for example black oiled smooth vs. black dress. The dress leather is pretty thin, therefore naturally less bulk is present, which would equate to adding width to the toe.

The modified Barrie seems more sleek in the toe than the 55, but if you compared BH and MP models with unstructured toes you will find that both actually can look pretty sleek, definitely sleeker than their structured toe counterpart.

On top of this, the unstructured lighter-weight leather (black dress for example) when unlined is going to be as sleek as possible, at least for a pair of White's.

Check out my pair of MP's for example: https://www.styleforum.net/threads/custom-whites-boots-thoughts.219173/page-757#post-9413994.

Now, see these unstructured BH's: #1
.

But, then, see these unstructured BH's: #2
.

#1 has a toe that looks structured, but once the owner starts wearing them in they start to show the unstructured toe crease. The toe might look rounder because of the thick CXL and the lining, meaning the toe is being given a rounder shape from the lining.

#2 has no lining, and the toe looks sleeker. Both 1 and 2 on the 55 last, both using CXL (which may differ in weights, but White's/Bakers usually used thick CXL).

The dress leather in by boots in noticeably less robust, and thinner, than any CXL boots I have. It feels more akin to calf, but even then not as robust (different finish, texture, creasing characteristics). It feels more brittle when compared to oil-rich leathers. Ohh boy does it look sleek, and it is so damn comfortable! The black dress leather also stands up to the elements, abrasion, scratches, and most importantly dog claws. I wear my MP's four or more times a week, which currently involves slogging through snow, slush, water, mud and getting stomped on by dogs who are covered in all of the aforementioned earthly concoctions. CXL would be absolutely trashed with surface scratches, but this dress leather seems to be invulnerable.

Will whites build unlined dress leathers?

 

[TH3515]

Will whites build unlined dress leathers?

I have an unlined brown dress pair, so apparently yes;-)

 

[Netvine]

Whites Brown Horse Hide Semi-Dress after 6-7 months occasional outdoor work use. Dont worry theyll get cleaned up with lexol cleaner. I brush daily. These boots have had saphir reno 4-5 times. Lexol conditioner recently on the vamp. As previously mentioned this leather has a lot of deep color variation and characteristics that are hard to get in the picture.

 

[Rymanocerous]

Whites Brown Horse Hide Semi-Dress after 6-7 months occasional outdoor work use. Dont worry theyll get cleaned up with lexol cleaner. I brush daily. These boots have had saphir reno 4-5 times. Lexol conditioner recently on the vamp...

Wow that’s a lot of Renomat..

 

[Legal Eagles]

Wow that’s a lot of Renomat..

I assumed he was referring to Saphir Renovateur, but you could be right... in which case it does seem like a lot of Renomat.

 

[Netvine]

Yes Renovateur I have no need to own renomat. On a related note; I’ve used Obenaufs HDLP on my Brown Smooth BH but discontinued a year ago. I haven't really missed it this winter. I have learned a lot of valuable information here. Thank you again!

 

[linafelt]

Whites Brown Horse Hide Semi-Dress after 6-7 months occasional outdoor work use. Dont worry theyll get cleaned up with lexol cleaner. I brush daily. These boots have had saphir reno 4-5 times. Lexol conditioner recently on the vamp. As previously mentioned this leather has a lot of deep color variation and characteristics that are hard to get in the picture.
View attachment 1115224 View attachment 1115225 View attachment 1115226
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Right on.

 

[linafelt]

Whites Brown Horse Hide Semi-Dress after 6-7 months occasional outdoor work use. Dont worry theyll get cleaned up with lexol cleaner. I brush daily. These boots have had saphir reno 4-5 times. Lexol conditioner recently on the vamp. As previously mentioned this leather has a lot of deep color variation and characteristics that are hard to get in the picture.
View attachment 1115224 View attachment 1115225 View attachment 1115226
View attachment 1115230

View attachment 1115249

And how about a pic after you cleaned them off..?

 

[iamntbatman]

My MPs came in! Since I put in my order in kind of a goofy way (added items to my cart at the White's site, applied the Black Friday coupon to the total, took a screen shot and sent it to Kyle at Baker's who price matched and sent me a PayPal invoice, then I worked out the details with him after paying), there wasn't actually an order in the system on the Baker's site. When I got the ship notice the order was created but I was just looking at the tracking instead of checking the order status at Baker's...long story short the MPs were finished and shipped earlier, but the Cykels haven't been shipped yet.

Anyway, I really like these. The waxed flesh smells and feels amazing, and the little scratch I put into the leather when I accidentally scraped it with a cabinet door has me excited for how the dark brown waxed flesh will patina. These are basically the same as the basic half lug sole, cap-toe boots on the White's site, though I did have speed hooks put in instead of only eyelets.

Got these in the same size as my 55 last BH (11E left boot, 10.5EE right). I think there's less volume around the instep than with the 55 last, and they were honestly pretty tight around the midfoot when I put them on, but I think they'll stretch out enough to fit very comfortably. Even with the slimmer profile, the toe box is actually somewhat roomier even for my wide toes than the 55. The arch support kind of feels like what my BH feel like now that the Arch-Ease is all smooshed down and formed to my foot, so all in all I'd describe the arch support as less than an SD or SJ or BH (or packer I'd warrant), but still significantly more than most other footwear.

The vibram half commando sole is also absolutely softer than the TPU/Quaboag combo on my BH, with better shock absorption and seemingly better grip on smooth tile. However, being softer, I imagine it will wear faster. These are a good bit lighter than my BH, which are lined brown dress with black roughout toe caps and counters. I think these will be better walking shoes and warmer weather shoes, even though my gait prefers the curved heel on the BH.

The stitching around the welt is sort of uneven - some longer stitches and some shorter ones, some sort of questionable stitch angles - but the upper stitching is all great and they're absolute tanks as you'd expect so I kind of think the vaguely ugly welt stitching will pair well with the patina these will eventually have. I'm overall quite happy with them.

 

[linafelt]

My MPs came in! Since I put in my order in kind of a goofy way (added items to my cart at the White's site, applied the Black Friday coupon to the total, took a screen shot and sent it to Kyle at Baker's who price matched and sent me a PayPal invoice, then I worked out the details with him after paying), there wasn't actually an order in the system on the Baker's site. When I got the ship notice the order was created but I was just looking at the tracking instead of checking the order status at Baker's...long story short the MPs were finished and shipped earlier, but the Cykels haven't been shipped yet.

Anyway, I really like these. The waxed flesh smells and feels amazing, and the little scratch I put into the leather when I accidentally scraped it with a cabinet door has me excited for how the dark brown waxed flesh will patina. These are basically the same as the basic half lug sole, cap-toe boots on the White's site, though I did have speed hooks put in instead of only eyelets.

Got these in the same size as my 55 last BH (11E left boot, 10.5EE right). I think there's less volume around the instep than with the 55 last, and they were honestly pretty tight around the midfoot when I put them on, but I think they'll stretch out enough to fit very comfortably. Even with the slimmer profile, the toe box is actually somewhat roomier even for my wide toes than the 55. The arch support kind of feels like what my BH feel like now that the Arch-Ease is all smooshed down and formed to my foot, so all in all I'd describe the arch support as less than an SD or SJ or BH (or packer I'd warrant), but still significantly more than most other footwear.

The vibram half commando sole is also absolutely softer than the TPU/Quaboag combo on my BH, with better shock absorption and seemingly better grip on smooth tile. However, being softer, I imagine it will wear faster. These are a good bit lighter than my BH, which are lined brown dress with black roughout toe caps and counters. I think these will be better walking shoes and warmer weather shoes, even though my gait prefers the curved heel on the BH.

The stitching around the welt is sort of uneven - some longer stitches and some shorter ones, some sort of questionable stitch angles - but the upper stitching is all great and they're absolute tanks as you'd expect so I kind of think the vaguely ugly welt stitching will pair well with the patina these will eventually have. I'm overall quite happy with them.

That's a great album! Thanks for all the detail. Looks like a fine pair of boots you got there...

 

[Legal Eagles]

I stole one of iamntbatman's pics... because this is what I have been seeing more than I would like lately on Whites... iamntbatman is a gentleman who says this does not bother him (it would not bother me either on a non-dress boot), but it gives us a view into some of these complaints.

@sambam do you consider this stitching acceptable in a White's boot? What causes the unevenness and varying stitch size? If a customer tried to return a pair of boots with this as the only defect, what would be White's response?