Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[Jmccle2]

The boots in second photo, horsehide? Good looking boots , all of them.

Thanks! They’re actually brown chromexcel. Very comfy right out the box.

 

[hoppy_IPA]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, if I push my foot forward a bit, I can easily fit my finger behind my heel, but then also I'm close to touching the front with my toes.

I have been through these very same frustrations to the N^th degree so understand what you're going through. It's tough and you want a great fit.
In my experience heel slip disappears as the boots breaks in. The main things you need to focus on for a new boot is length & width. You should have enough room to wiggle your toes & the ball of your foot should be able to wiggle/slide side to side just a little.
A full fingers width or 1/2" room is solid advice. Soft toe boots can be a little tighter and conversely steel toe need even more room. Sliding a finger behind your heel is a poor indicator but IMHO you should be able to do that with your toes touching the end of the toe box. With my boots that fit great there isn't much extra room at all when doing as described.

White's are Hand-Welted & made from very high quality, robust leather. The entire boot stretches & shrinks to mold to your foot kind of like a pair of raw denim. Although maddening for the first timer, it's not gonna feel perfect on day 1. After a couple weeks of good wear though they will start molding perfectly to your foot. If the width & length meet the above specs then your heel-slip will soon be a distant memory.

 

[andy b.]

They sound as though they may be too large. On slip on boots like engineer boots, I always have a lot of initial heel slip. But on lace-up boots I hardly have any, if any at all.

Are you wearing the boots with the same socks you used for the foot tracings? A pair of very thick wool socks can take up a 1/2 size in length and a full size in width. I'd say if you have a thick pair of socks, try the boots on with them and if your feet easily fit and the heel slip goes away, you can probably go down a half size (unless you plan to wear the boots with real thick socks normally).

Question. Could use some suggestions.
I just got a pair of the Whites MP boots, still wearing them around the house trying to decide if they are a bit too large.

But, I'm not sure if there is too much room in the heel. When walking around, my heel slips about an inch up and down. If I'm sitting in a chair lets say, with my feet up, I am barely touching the heel part of the boot heel, but again the instep and everywhere else in the boot feels great. That may not even be a good test with my feet up, but when walking in them around the house my heel slips a good bit.

And, they say heel slip should go away after a while, so I'm kinda torn with these being my first real expensive (for me) pair of boots.

I'm a bit worried that there is too much room in the heel, and am afraid if I go down a half size that my toes will be cramped together..

 

[linafelt]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, if I push my foot forward a bit, I can easily fit my finger behind my heel, but then also I'm close to touching the front with my toes. I do really hate to think about keeping these if they are too big, I just don't want to exchange them again for a pair that will be too tight on the toes. I really wish I had a Whites boots near me but I'm in NY so its across the country lol.

Could be you need a half size shorter in length and one width wider...

Are you in NYC? If so, there have been some retailers in the past there who carried White’s.

 

[Phalanx]

I got my feet measured and submitted to Kyle and Whites and I need some advice. Kyle got me as a 13.5E and whereas Whites had me down as a 13F (via Dan at https://eastwestapparel.co.uk/). My brannock size is 14B (but Brannock isn't very reliable at this size). I don't want to sound critical of either party; I was kind of hoping both recommended sizes would be consistent.

Kyle is clearly (from reading) very well renowned, so I'd be leaning towards his size, but since I'm in the UK, it's pretty much a necessity that I get this right.

I think my choice of last will play a very big role in this decision. An option I'd be very tempted by would be to get a stock 13.5E or 13E shipped to me as a kind of tester pair, then I could return them and get my custom boots ordered. It'd probably cost me around £100 in shipping I reckon, but that's £100 to know for an absolute certainty what my white's size is.

What do you think? Cheers

Caveat: This entire process is essentially me trying to get a pair of Red Wing 8119 in size 13E (13D's length is perfect, but too narrow in the toe box). Red Wing don't do EE widths at clown shoe size which is what led me to seek out White's in the first place (ignoring that White's are vastly superior of course).

 

[Crit_Obs]

I got my feet measured and submitted to Kyle and Whites and I need some advice. Kyle got me as a 13.5E and whereas Whites had me down as a 13F (via Dan at https://eastwestapparel.co.uk/). My brannock size is 14B (but Brannock isn't very reliable at this size). I don't want to sound critical of either party; I was kind of hoping both recommended sizes would be consistent.

Kyle is clearly (from reading) very well renowned, so I'd be leaning towards his size, but since I'm in the UK, it's pretty much a necessity that I get this right.

I think my choice of last will play a very big role in this decision. An option I'd be very tempted by would be to get a stock 13.5E or 13E shipped to me as a kind of tester pair, then I could return them and get my custom boots ordered. It'd probably cost me around £100 in shipping I reckon, but that's £100 to know for an absolute certainty what my white's size is.

What do you think? Cheers

Caveat: This entire process is essentially me trying to get a pair of Red Wing 8119 in size 13E (13D's length is perfect, but too narrow in the toe box). Red Wing don't do EE widths at clown shoe size which is what led me to seek out White's in the first place (ignoring that White's are vastly superior of course).

Tbf there’s not much in it between 13.5E and 13F so I would call that consistent sizing by the 2 parties... Both are likely to fit you but one might fit you better than the other.

Yoyr tester-pair plan is a sound one. Another alternative would be to keep your eyes peeled on Whitesriver on eBay, the canoe-class sizes (no offense intended, I wish I wore very big / very small shoes) often go very cheaply there: you could grab a pair that’s there or there abouts, to nail down the sizing for a future MTO.

 

[hoppy_IPA]

Kyle has me @ 11.5D and White’s has me @ 12E. For my steel toe work boots the 12E is great. For my soft toe SD’s & BH’s the 11.5D is perfect. I have 2 pairs of MP’s, 11.5D & 12D - the latter fits best.

 

[Legal Eagles]

I think my choice of last will play a very big role in this decision.

This is often overlooked... most standard lasts (55, 4811 etc.) work for most standard feet, but not all. For example, I have a wide ball and narrow heel... therefore there are some lasts that will never fit me correctly, regardless of the selection of length and width. If it is wide enough for the ball, my heel slides around side to side... if I try to keep the width down by increasing the length (which is never a good idea), my heel slides front to back.

It could be that trying to make a last not compatible with your feet work will be an exercise in futility. In addition to sizing in a particular last, both White's and Bakers can take your tracings and your measurements (I think too many people fail to take careful measurements of the foot... there is more to fitting than just a tracing)... and recommend a good fitting last and then the best size and width in that last.

That is how I found out that the 38 Swing is perfect for me, the 55 is fine, the 4811 is acceptable, and the 461 is marginal... and I can forget about the 690 packer altogether... every foot is different... first get the right last, then get the right size.

This has been posted before, but it is worth seeing again...

 

[ThreeLions]

I got my feet measured and submitted to Kyle and Whites and I need some advice. Kyle got me as a 13.5E and whereas Whites had me down as a 13F (via Dan at https://eastwestapparel.co.uk/). My brannock size is 14B (but Brannock isn't very reliable at this size). I don't want to sound critical of either party; I was kind of hoping both recommended sizes would be consistent.

Kyle is clearly (from reading) very well renowned, so I'd be leaning towards his size, but since I'm in the UK, it's pretty much a necessity that I get this right.

I think my choice of last will play a very big role in this decision. An option I'd be very tempted by would be to get a stock 13.5E or 13E shipped to me as a kind of tester pair, then I could return them and get my custom boots ordered. It'd probably cost me around £100 in shipping I reckon, but that's £100 to know for an absolute certainty what my white's size is.

What do you think? Cheers

Caveat: This entire process is essentially me trying to get a pair of Red Wing 8119 in size 13E (13D's length is perfect, but too narrow in the toe box). Red Wing don't do EE widths at clown shoe size which is what led me to seek out White's in the first place (ignoring that White's are vastly superior of course).

I’m also a 13 1/2 - 14B in brannock. I take a 12 D or C in Whites. Big difference.

I once tried on size 13 smokejumpers and they felt ridiculously huge.

 

[Ice Bear]

Both one size larger and narrower and one size smaller and wider may work -depending on the last. A size 10D and 9.5E in the semi-dress work well for me. I am typically 10.5 in dress shoes.

The internet makes it possible to buy boots from half way around the world. Unfortunately, the only way to know fit for sure is to try them on.

 

[Davey13]

Could be you need a half size shorter in length and one width wider...

Are you in NYC? If so, there have been some retailers in the past there who carried White’s.

I searched but didn't come up with anyone in NY that sells them

 

[linafelt]

I searched but didn't come up with anyone in NY that sells them

Grahame Fowler is who I was trying to remember:

https://grahamefowler.com/shop/mens-shoes-boots/whites/

 

[Davey13]

I have been through these very same frustrations to the N^th degree so understand what you're going through. It's tough and you want a great fit.
In my experience heel slip disappears as the boots breaks in. The main things you need to focus on for a new boot is length & width. You should have enough room to wiggle your toes & the ball of your foot should be able to wiggle/slide side to side just a little.
A full fingers width or 1/2" room is solid advice. Soft toe boots can be a little tighter and conversely steel toe need even more room. Sliding a finger behind your heel is a poor indicator but IMHO you should be able to do that with your toes touching the end of the toe box. With my boots that fit great there isn't much extra room at all when doing as described.

White's are Hand-Welted & made from very high quality, robust leather. The entire boot stretches & shrinks to mold to your foot kind of like a pair of raw denim. Although maddening for the first timer, it's not gonna feel perfect on day 1. After a couple weeks of good wear though they will start molding perfectly to your foot. If the width & length meet the above specs then your heel-slip will soon be a distant memory.

Thanks for the detailed reply. This is where it gets difficult. With the upper part around the lacing and the instep fitting so well on my foot, my foot really doesn't want to push forward, and if I try to, my toes come up probably a hair before touching the front of the boot. In other words, they feel great in that area but really don't let me feel the front of the boot even if I try. So that's good.

Its really the heel section, that feels a bit too loose in the back. I tried unlacing the top two eyelets, just to get a better feel of my foot size. Being that the boot is new and stiff still, its very hard to get my fingers in the back, but I can manage to.

The real problem seems to be when the top two holes are not laced, when walking around I can barely even feel the back of the boot touching my heel. I mean, I can but very lightly rubbing. With the top holes laced it helps pull my foot back about a cm or two which seems to help, but still even then my heel slips a good inch up and down.

My biggest fear is sending them back for half size down just for my toes to feel cramped.

I look forward to the boot conforming to my foot after some time, but I wonder if this room in the back will ever diminish since it feels like a lot.

Thanks for all the help. I know I sound redundant, but like you said above, the toes and ball of my foot have just enough room to wiggle just a bit, feels perfect. Its the heel that feels like I could go down some but I assume that will bring my toes closer to where the boot gets more pointy.

This really is harder than I thought.

 

[pbrmhl]

To me, it sounds like the boot is too wide, and that you wouldn't want to shorten the length. But I'm no expert.

 

[Davey13]

They sound as though they may be too large. On slip on boots like engineer boots, I always have a lot of initial heel slip. But on lace-up boots I hardly have any, if any at all.

Are you wearing the boots with the same socks you used for the foot tracings? A pair of very thick wool socks can take up a 1/2 size in length and a full size in width. I'd say if you have a thick pair of socks, try the boots on with them and if your feet easily fit and the heel slip goes away, you can probably go down a half size (unless you plan to wear the boots with real thick socks normally).

So I put on thicker socks just now, (not wool but thicker cotton sport socks) and they feel a lot better in size. I still have a little bit of heel slip but it feels better. the problem is my feet get so hot in thick socks, and really planned on using these with very thin socks.

Still not sure how I screwed up on the measurements. Do you think I'd be okay going down a half size? With other boots if my toes get cramped I get very bad blisters in between my toes, and hate to think about spending this dough on a pair that will still be cramped.

I can try to make the larger ones work now, but if the breaking in of the heel doesn't take up a good half inch of actual length in the heel, that scares me too. I appreciate your help.