Cucinelli Keeps Looking Forward

[anaxagoras]

Haha. Imagine, you just checked out and put $7450 on the credit card and then you read in fine print “*not suitable for hot beverages”…egg on your face.

Some context for these prices (which are insane). A few years ago I was shopping at Harrods in the post-sale period. (If you can, go there in the weeks after their big sale ends--the very last pieces are on unmarked racks, and no longer in the boutiques. Here you can occasionally score this stuff at 90% off.)

There was a guy dressed as a shlub looking at a living room set which included leather couches, tables, bookcases, sideboards, carpets. He liked it and after some brief discussion said "I will take all of it and would like it delivered next week in city X", which was many thousands of miles from Kensington.

Salesman didn't blink, told him to wait a second, came back in a few minutes with a price, which was well on its way to seven figures, they nailed down the delivery, and done in about 10 minutes.

There are a lot of people like that there and they wouldn't blink at the water bottle or all the BC prices. But, again, what I noticed about BC this year is that it appears not to be selling. (E.g. the Lardini and Corneliani stuff, which IMHO is priced appropriately, was gone instantly.)

 

[DorianGreen]

There's a few factors:

Just because men have money that doesn't mean they are sartorialsts. They might have never heard of Attolini etc. They might only know well marketed brands.

They might not care about comparative analysis in terms of value. They like it, buy it and move on.

Bespoke takes work and dedication. If you are a billionaire or even 100millionaire chances are you don't have much time. You might even have your assistant do your shopping for you (especially if you're not a sartorialist).

The other factor is styling. Cucinelli does have a distinct style and it could be tedious to find a tailor that specializes in that look.

Yes, each one has his priorities. I speak from my point of view, but others views can clearly differ.

 

[DorianGreen]

Some context for these prices (which are insane). A few years ago I was shopping at Harrods in the post-sale period. (If you can, go there in the weeks after their big sale ends--the very last pieces are on unmarked racks, and no longer in the boutiques. Here you can occasionally score this stuff at 90% off.)

There was a guy dressed as a shlub looking at a living room set which included leather couches, tables, bookcases, sideboards, carpets. He liked it and after some brief discussion said "I will take all of it and would like it delivered next week in city X", which was many thousands of miles from Kensington.

Salesman didn't blink, told him to wait a second, came back in a few minutes with a price, which was well on its way to seven figures, they nailed down the delivery, and done in about 10 minutes.

There are a lot of people like that there and they wouldn't blink at the water bottle or all the BC prices. But, again, what I noticed about BC this year is that it appears not to be selling. (E.g. the Lardini and Corneliani stuff, which IMHO is priced appropriately, was gone instantly.)

I was today in the KadeWe, somehow the equivalent of Harrods here in Berlin, and took a look at the Brunello Cucinelli's selection: apart from a couple of nice sweaters , I couldn't score anything awaking my interest, just overpriced, common if not boring looking garments.

 

[diokanye]

But, again, what I noticed about BC this year is that it appears not to be selling. (E.g. the Lardini and Corneliani stuff, which IMHO is priced appropriately, was gone instantly.)

This is incorrect, they've had a record breaking year in net revenue and are due to hit the €1B mark next year (4 years ahead of projection)

Stock price is at an all time high too

 

[NVPG]

Some context for these prices (which are insane). A few years ago I was shopping at Harrods in the post-sale period. (If you can, go there in the weeks after their big sale ends--the very last pieces are on unmarked racks, and no longer in the boutiques. Here you can occasionally score this stuff at 90% off.)

There was a guy dressed as a shlub looking at a living room set which included leather couches, tables, bookcases, sideboards, carpets. He liked it and after some brief discussion said "I will take all of it and would like it delivered next week in city X", which was many thousands of miles from Kensington.

Salesman didn't blink, told him to wait a second, came back in a few minutes with a price, which was well on its way to seven figures, they nailed down the delivery, and done in about 10 minutes.

There are a lot of people like that there and they wouldn't blink at the water bottle or all the BC prices. But, again, what I noticed about BC this year is that it appears not to be selling. (E.g. the Lardini and Corneliani stuff, which IMHO is priced appropriately, was gone instantly.)

Yeah I think there are A LOT of products not selling just based on volume of sale/outlet product (I’m sure the core product is still selling like crazy). I still focus less on “why is this glass bottle $2k?” and more on “what does this say about the value I get for my dollar?” The more a brand tilts towards charging high prices just for the sake of charging high prices, nothing is really stopping them from dropping quality years down the line (because some millionaire/billionaire won’t blink an eye and buy it all anyway).

 

[rwtc]

Cucinelli's styling has always been conservative and not outlandish by any means most of the time, which caters to a specific segment of the market.

A lot of other luxury brands are charging similar prices and also offer a wide range of products, but it seems like only Cucinelli get flack for it at least on this forum. Let's be fair here..... at least Cucinelli has products on sale, rather than burning / shredding it at the end of the season like LVMH (almost never on sale).

Hermes for example, is also almost never on sale and the quality is really questionable for certain products. Their shoe lineup is one of the worst I've ever seen from a highest end luxury brand in terms of quality.. much worse than Cucinelli and at a higher price point. Cucinelli has goodyear welted shoes and cordovan shoes. Hermes has mostly the cemented stuff, including fully synthetic shoes at over 1K. You can say whatever you want, but at least Cucinelli goes on sale and uses good leather.

Another point... Cucinelli pays their employees very well, but people on the forum tend to look at the absolute price point rather than care about how well employees are paid. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I'm the same way. There was some discussion in another thread maybe a few years ago about shirt manufacturing dying in America. There is simply less demand for it and more demand for foreign made shirts because the price point was lower, per a store owner of a pretty prestigious shop. Per that store owner, people like to pay lip service to want goods manufactured locallly / wherever, but they also don't want to pay the corresponding price for it, so they end up not purchasing. I guess my point is, there is a price you have to pay for the higher wages and all the money that Cucinelli donates, very much unlike LVMH...

There are certainly many worse offenders than Brunello Cucinelli in the top tier luxury space

 

[RapFan]

Cucinelli's styling has always been conservative and not outlandish by any means most of the time, which caters to a specific segment of the market.

A lot of other luxury brands are charging similar prices and also offer a wide range of products, but it seems like only Cucinelli get flack for it at least on this forum. Let's be fair here..... at least Cucinelli has products on sale, rather than burning / shredding it at the end of the season like LVMH (almost never on sale).

Hermes for example, is also almost never on sale and the quality is really questionable for certain products. Their shoe lineup is one of the worst I've ever seen from a highest end luxury brand in terms of quality.. much worse than Cucinelli and at a higher price point. Cucinelli has goodyear welted shoes and cordovan shoes. Hermes has mostly the cemented stuff, including fully synthetic shoes at over 1K. You can say whatever you want, but at least Cucinelli goes on sale and uses good leather.

Another point... Cucinelli pays their employees very well, but people on the forum tend to look at the absolute price point rather than care about how well employees are paid. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I'm the same way. There was some discussion in another thread maybe a few years ago about shirt manufacturing dying in America. There is simply less demand for it and more demand for foreign made shirts because the price point was lower, per a store owner of a pretty prestigious shop. Per that store owner, people like to pay lip service to want goods manufactured locallly / wherever, but they also don't want to pay the corresponding price for it, so they end up not purchasing. I guess my point is, there is a price you have to pay for the higher wages and all the money that Cucinelli donates, very much unlike LVMH...

There are certainly many worse offenders than Brunello Cucinelli in the top tier luxury space

I've never entered a Hermes store, but I thought their shoes were made by John Lobb

 

[DorianGreen]

Cucinelli's styling has always been conservative and not outlandish by any means most of the time, which caters to a specific segment of the market.

A lot of other luxury brands are charging similar prices and also offer a wide range of products, but it seems like only Cucinelli get flack for it at least on this forum. Let's be fair here..... at least Cucinelli has products on sale, rather than burning / shredding it at the end of the season like LVMH (almost never on sale).

Hermes for example, is also almost never on sale and the quality is really questionable for certain products. Their shoe lineup is one of the worst I've ever seen from a highest end luxury brand in terms of quality.. much worse than Cucinelli and at a higher price point. Cucinelli has goodyear welted shoes and cordovan shoes. Hermes has mostly the cemented stuff, including fully synthetic shoes at over 1K. You can say whatever you want, but at least Cucinelli goes on sale and uses good leather.

Another point... Cucinelli pays their employees very well, but people on the forum tend to look at the absolute price point rather than care about how well employees are paid. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I'm the same way. There was some discussion in another thread maybe a few years ago about shirt manufacturing dying in America. There is simply less demand for it and more demand for foreign made shirts because the price point was lower, per a store owner of a pretty prestigious shop. Per that store owner, people like to pay lip service to want goods manufactured locallly / wherever, but they also don't want to pay the corresponding price for it, so they end up not purchasing. I guess my point is, there is a price you have to pay for the higher wages and all the money that Cucinelli donates, very much unlike LVMH...

There are certainly many worse offenders than Brunello Cucinelli in the top tier luxury space

I totally agree with you, but this thread is about Cucinelli, so I criticised their products. Undoubtedly there are other brands, whose price policy is as questionable as well, we just spoke of Hermes.
By the way, I really appreciate that Cucinelli fairly handles his employees, but it's obviously no reason to buy a product that is overpriced and does not appeal to me.

 

[rwtc]

I've never entered a Hermes store, but I thought their shoes were made by John Lobb

The Hermes conglomerate owns John Lobb Paris. Original John Lobb in England is a separate entity.

The actual shoes that Hermes carries, which is distinct from the JL line, is pretty poor quality. Don't take my word for it... take a look yourself

Cemented - made in Italy, so clearly not JL

https://www.hermes.com/ca/en/product/paris-loafer-H211900ZABE420/

Synthetic

https://www.hermes.com/ca/en/product/flex-sneaker-H222910ZH02400/

$1575 sneakers in an embossed leather

https://www.hermes.com/ca/en/product/day-sneaker-H222897ZHNH425/

etc

 

[DorianGreen]

I've never entered a Hermes store, but I thought their shoes were made by John Lobb

Yes, they were. Don't know about the current production.

 

[anaxagoras]

Another point... Cucinelli pays their employees very well, but people on the forum tend to look at the absolute price point rather than care about how well employees are paid.
There are certainly many worse offenders than Brunello Cucinelli in the top tier luxury space

Fully agreed. The rise in Italian standards of living in the last 20 years means that it is impossible to produce in Italy at their quality level without prices going ballistic. The fact that Asia boomed over the same period provided enough demand to offset this. No idea how things develop from here.

 

[fabricateurialist]

Cucinelli's styling has always been conservative and not outlandish by any means most of the time, which caters to a specific segment of the market.

A lot of other luxury brands are charging similar prices and also offer a wide range of products, but it seems like only Cucinelli get flack for it at least on this forum. Let's be fair here..... at least Cucinelli has products on sale, rather than burning / shredding it at the end of the season like LVMH (almost never on sale).

Hermes for example, is also almost never on sale and the quality is really questionable for certain products. Their shoe lineup is one of the worst I've ever seen from a highest end luxury brand in terms of quality.. much worse than Cucinelli and at a higher price point. Cucinelli has goodyear welted shoes and cordovan shoes. Hermes has mostly the cemented stuff, including fully synthetic shoes at over 1K. You can say whatever you want, but at least Cucinelli goes on sale and uses good leather.

Another point... Cucinelli pays their employees very well, but people on the forum tend to look at the absolute price point rather than care about how well employees are paid. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I'm the same way. There was some discussion in another thread maybe a few years ago about shirt manufacturing dying in America. There is simply less demand for it and more demand for foreign made shirts because the price point was lower, per a store owner of a pretty prestigious shop. Per that store owner, people like to pay lip service to want goods manufactured locallly / wherever, but they also don't want to pay the corresponding price for it, so they end up not purchasing. I guess my point is, there is a price you have to pay for the higher wages and all the money that Cucinelli donates, very much unlike LVMH...

There are certainly many worse offenders than Brunello Cucinelli in the top tier luxury space

Hermès conducts sales through their boutiques on an invite-only basis locally (at least where I live) e.g. the boutique rents out a conference room at a local five-star hotel once, sometimes twice a year, with all the seasonal inventory being on sale

Much of the LVMH portfolio conducts sales and operates outlets, Louis Vuitton's RTW, for example, goes on sale as well, although I've only seen this in-store and mostly by accident - never seen it advertised

 

[gimpwiz]

I think the term "veblen good" applies here. Perhaps for $3000 sweaters, perhaps not, but certainly for $750 cigar holders and $2000 (or $7000) water bottles. The question is, does this cheapen a brand for you? Make it more luxurious or special? Both or neither, depending on the situation? And of course, whether that might change your own purchasing habits.

I am not the target market for a $3000 article of clothing to wear around the house, let alone a $2000 water bottle, so it's all a wash to me.

 

[rwtc]

Hermès conducts sales through their boutiques on an invite-only basis locally (at least where I live) e.g. the boutique rents out a conference room at a local five-star hotel once, sometimes twice a year, with all the seasonal inventory being on sale

Much of the LVMH portfolio conducts sales and operates outlets, Louis Vuitton's RTW, for example, goes on sale as well, although I've only seen this in-store and mostly by accident - never seen it advertised

I've been to the Hermes sales a few times and wasn't personally impressed quality wise, but YMMV as obviously the stock and service vary. The sales I went to were not invite only in my city but I've heard of the invite-only sales you're mentioning.

I'm not an expert in the LVMH world and what you said is very fair. At the end of the day though... I understand they destroy stock rather than to sell it, in an attempt not to dilute their brand image. I prefer a brand to not destroy perfectly fine products, but that's a very personal opinion.

I think the term "veblen good" applies here. Perhaps for $3000 sweaters, perhaps not, but certainly for $750 cigar holders and $2000 (or $7000) water bottles. The question is, does this cheapen a brand for you? Make it more luxurious or special? Both or neither, depending on the situation? And of course, whether that might change your own purchasing habits.

I am not the target market for a $3000 article of clothing to wear around the house, let alone a $2000 water bottle, so it's all a wash to me.

Seems to me that these companies that have a wide array of offerings are trying to sell a lifestyle and all the associated goods along with it. At least based on the sales numbers, this is obviously working for Cucinelli, so for the average BC buyer it makes the brand more special, just like in the manner of a veblen good.

Their target buyers that buy at retail likely don't nitpick quality like we do and just get it because it'll match the ambiance or getup they're going for... $2000 is likely just does not amount to a meaning amount of money in their eyes due to the sheer size of their wealth. I will personally never understand who'll spend that much money for a water bottle at full retail. I would somewhat be able to understand it if the bottle is made out of pure gold or something at that price.

 

[jdgershbein]

I do not own any Bruno Cucinelli garments -- I would like to someday, especially a few pieces of knitwear -- and cannot presently justify a purchase. Nor can I speak to the durability of the garments. I don't buy clothing items with the notion of preserving their legacy.

The Cucinelli clothes look fantastic on the shelf and on the mannequins. I have tried a few casual sweaters on; whereas they feel amazing, I didn't care for the drape. Loro Piana, Zegna, Kiton, and Eleventy fit me like the proverbial glove.

If I had the money, perhaps I'd splurge and dedicate a corner of my closet to BC. For now, I'll live vicariously through the gentlemen here who extol the virtues of the brand.