Why Bespoke Shirts?

[StagRaven]

Still have your hat in its hat-press?

ha, I don't even own a hat press. My smokey has 'character' from wearing it for weeks on end as staff at our council's advanced leadership camp. Also to be noted, where I'm from, the smokey is the only headgear not to be immediately wrapped wet around a can to form it 'correctly'

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Also to be noted, where I'm from, the smokey is the only headgear not to be immediately wrapped wet around a can to form it 'correctly'

Heck, Stag, that's not unique to Virginia. How do you think we shape our collars and cuffs?

 

[jcusey]

As promised, a decent photo of an Italian Collared shirt:

To revive this thread, a question: The problem that I've always had with this type of collar is that fifteen minutes after I put the shirt on, after turning my head to the left and to the right, the collar has crumpled down and looks like LA Guy's bowling shirt. What do you have to do to get the collar to maintain its shape while still being soft enough to be comfortable?

 

[Fritz]

Prompted by a recent discussion on AAAC, I also have a question:

Is it more difficult/expensive to make a shirt with a higher armhole? Thank you.

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

(JCusey) The problem that I've always had with this type of collar is that fifteen minutes after I put the shirt on, after turning my head to the left and to the right, the collar has crumpled down and looks like LA Guy's bowling shirt. What do you have to do to get the collar to maintain its shape while still being soft enough to be comfortable?

Well, I've spent the entire day mulling (old codger word, sorry) your question. I have arrived at a multiple choice answer. One or more of the answers may be correct:
A] Keep your head facing forward at all times
B] Use an expensive, soft, but resiliant Swiss-German cotton interlining which goes as far down as 1"-2" past the first button
C] Wear the shirt you have, but only for fourteen minutes.
D] Go bowling in Los Angeles

Prompted by a recent discussion on AAAC, I also have a question:
Is it more difficult/expensive to make a shirt with a higher armhole? Thank you.

Another question which could more easily be answered by the use of multiple choice ... but I shall refrain. It is not more expensive - on the surface. It is more difficult, assuming that to harmonize with the higher armhole one is properly creating a more curved sleeve cap. It is more in that a more curved sleeve cap is more difficult to sew, hence requiring more time. It is more difficult in that a too-high armhole can result in rejection of the shirt for lack of comfort. In this case, the body may be salvaged ... but the sleeves cannot be. That would require the use of an additional 14-18 sq. ft. of fabric and hours of disassembly time thus making it more expensive.
In summation, that's a whole lotta mores. One rule which applies without question in shirtmaking is that a whole lotta mores are always followed by the overarching more ... more expensive.

 

[jcusey]

B] Use an expensive, soft, but resiliant Swiss-German cotton interlining which goes as far down as 1"-2" past the first button

Thank you, Alex. How does this expensive, soft-but-resilient Swiss-German cotton interlining differ from collar linings used in standard dress shirt collars?

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

Somebody (MatthewFW?) asked if there is a cuff designed to show a watch. Interesting cuff, bad photo, sorry:

The rest of the answers: Western shirt of Swiss-woven 2x2 120s Dark Cocoa Brown Cotton Broadcloth, Oyster White Split Cowhide, Western Snap Buttons, mannequin c. 1970s, shirt c.1980s, shirtmaker c. 1950s.

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

(JCusey) Thank you, Alex. How does this expensive, soft-but-resilient Swiss-German cotton interlining differ from collar linings used in standard dress shirt collars?

Pesky Texan.

1] Standard dress shirt collars use interlinings which range from 50¢ per yard to a couple of dollars. The interlining in the blue shirt collar is roughtly $10/yard. And/Or Conclusion: Better cotton And better weaving Or stupid shirtmaker 2] Many of these type of shirts are made with non-woven interlining (common name: Pellon). Translation of non-woven interlining into a more familiar term: Paper. With all the characteristics thereof, the primary one being ability to crumple. 3] Those that aren't made with non-wovens are made with cheap wovens. These are made with, for simplicity's sake, a great deal of starch, or sizing. Most of it washes out on the first wash leaving the shirt with an easily crumple-able lining. 4] The more expensive wovens, such as the one in the blue shirt, are woven of a thicker cotton yarn which, although it can wrinkle, is too thick to crumple. The yarn has a high "surface fuzz" property (like those technical terms, eh?) which is what imparts the softness. In other words, it is not singed. Yet the yarn is strong enough to resist creasing even though it can get gentle wrinkles when washed ... which iron out quite easily. 5] Why Swiss-German? Why Paris's La Maison du Chocolat? Why Japan's Kobi Beef? Why Fundamentalist Islamic terrorists? Why Halliburton? Because in each instance, they do it better.

 

[jcusey]

Pesky Texan.

All-knowing New Yorker.

1] Standard dress shirt collars use interlinings which range from 50¢ per yard to a couple of dollars. The interlining in the blue shirt collar is roughtly $10/yard. And/Or Conclusion: Better cotton And better weaving Or stupid shirtmaker

How about the interlining in your standard dress shirt collars? And how many yards do you need for an Italian collar interlining? And I promise that the interrogation will cease after this.

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

)JCusey) How about the interlining in your standard dress shirt collars?

If you are referring to non-fused, the interlining I use is a special weave known as a "webbing". It could loosely be compared to a very heavy, multi-layer twill. It bends, but does not wrinkle. It is supple, but not soft. It is expensive, but not cheap. I haven't had to buy any since the Euro vs. Dollar went wankers (another technical shirt term), but it is probably up to about $25/yard. It is made in Switzerland - and is the only interlining made by the mill that makes it.
If you are referring to fused, there are so many variables I would be writing for months. Actually, I wouldn't. My fused collar formulations are stored with the same security that Corsicana Street Bakery uses for their fruitcake recipe. Suffice it to say that I use varying combinations of woven fused cotton interlinings selected from the 25 or so I have in stock to engineer my fused collars. All of the fused interlinings are Swiss-German or German in origin.

And how many yards do you need for an Italian collar interlining?

About 1/2 yard (vs. about 1/15 yd for a standard collar).

 

[rlevine]

Your mention of Albini cotton reminded me of something. The last time I talked to my shirtmaker, he mentioned that this mill (?) had come out with some wrinkle resistant 100% cotton material. Apparently it was in a trial phase. It cost about $100 for enough material for a shirt. Do you have any thoughts about that material?

 

[Alexander Kabbaz]

(RLevine) Your mention of Albini cotton reminded me of something. The last time I talked to my shirtmaker, he mentioned that this mill (?) had come out with some wrinkle resistant 100% cotton material. Apparently it was in a trial phase. It cost about $100 for enough material for a shirt. Do you have any thoughts about that material?

There are about a gazillion ways (my 3rd grader is teaching me the new math) to make cotton wrinkle resistant. From chemicals, to oven baking, to starch impregnation and more ... but I have yet to see one which does not detrimentally affect the hand of the cotton in some way. Hedonist that I am, I want my shirts to feel as nice as they can - even if it means I have to change between day and evening shirts. Albini, however, is one of the top five mills in the world and very much out front when it comes to innovation. I figure they would have just about as good a shot at coming up with a new method as anyone. Maybe someday they's make micromodal available in high quality woven shirtings ... and wrinkles will become a thing of the past ... probably at $500 per yard.

 

[uriahheep]

Questions:

Long known worldwide as one of the top two custom shirtmakers, Alexander S. Kabbaz and his wife and partner, Joelle M. Kelly...

Who's the other top custom shirtmaker?

Shirt prices range from $600 (average $675 - 1st time minimum of 8; thereafter 2)...

When did the policy change, from an initial minimum of 6 and no minimum thereafter? How is the western shirt pictured above to be cleaned, with its leather trimming? Thanks in advance.

 

[William Massena]

Albini, however, is one of the top five mills in the world

Alex,

Would you mind sharing the name of the 4 other mills (in your opinion)?

Thanks.

William

 

[uriahheep]

Alex,

Would you mind sharing the name of the 4 other mills (in your opinion)?

Thanks.

William

AK posted such a list not long ago.
I think it went something like this:

1. (tie) Alumo, Albini
2. (tie) SIC Tess, Hubert DuPont(no longer exists)
3. Oltolina
4. Hausammann & Moos
5. Carlo Riva

Now a shameless bump for what I asked on the previous page of this thread:

Questions:

Long known worldwide as one of the top two custom shirtmakers, Alexander S. Kabbaz and his wife and partner, Joelle M. Kelly...

Who's the other top custom shirtmaker?

Shirt prices range from $600 (average $675 - 1st time minimum of 8; thereafter 2)...

When did the policy change, from an initial minimum of 6 and no minimum thereafter?

How is the western shirt pictured above(edit: now, the western on the previous page) to be cleaned, with its leather trimming?

Thanks in advance.