white tie with DJ

[clubman]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

^Are you going to include ferreting? I suspect at least as many Britons engage in that pursuit as they do hawking, which of course is slightly different from falconry, the latter being practiced by a falconer, the former by an austringer. (And I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first time the word "austringer" has been used in the history of SF!)
Strictly, an austringer is one who trains and flies specifically goshawks. The book chapter is called 'falconry'; the distinctions between falconry and hawking are blurred by the use of terms such as The Hawk Board and The Falconry Trust, both of which cover hawks and falcons: just as the distinction is blurred between 'beer' and 'ale'. Real pedantry on this subject would mean that we would call only a female peregrine a 'falcon' and the male a 'tercel'. Statute uses the term 'falconry'. Unlike other firms of hunting it is even protected by UNESCO and a peregrine in the stoop is the fastest creature on earth, reaching up to 200 mph. Sorry to say, ferrets aren't in this book but there is a plate of the prototype road model of the 1931 8 litre Bentley (owned by Jack Buchanan), of which only 100 were made, before Bentley nearly went bust and was saved by RR. Althogether, the three books should make a nice compendium: "Storey's Miscellanie of Ye Olde Englande: Designed For the Delight, Diversion and Delectation of Natives and the Annoyance of Ye Former Colonials, Foreigners and Other Aliens. Price: sixpence halfpenny s. 6.1/2 and Not Yet Remaindered."

 

[Ianiceman]

Pres Obama at White house press ball in black tie tonight, but deduct points for notch lapels!

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by Manton

That's a pretty good reason, actually.

 

[Redwoood]

Looking good. I bet one of you was cold while the other was too hot all evening

Gatsby party, eh? Sounds like that could be loads of fun.

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by clubman

Strictly, an austringer is one who trains and flies specifically goshawks. The book chapter is called 'falconry'; the distinctions between falconry and hawking are blurred by the use of terms such as The Hawk Board and The Falconry Trust, both of which cover hawks and falcons: just as the distinction is blurred between 'beer' and 'ale'. Real pedantry on this subject would mean that we would call only a female peregrine a 'falcon' and the male a 'tercel'. Statute uses the term 'falconry'. Unlike other firms of hunting it is even protected by UNESCO and a peregrine in the stoop is the fastest creature on earth, reaching up to 200 mph.

How common are goshawks in Great Britain? In my part of the country (Southern California) they are only to be found, I believe, in high mountain forests. At least the only two times I have seen them has been at 9,000+ feet, once on Mt. San Jacinto and another time on the south slope of Mt. Baden-Powell. It is claimed they only winter here, but when I saw them it was late summer or early autumn.

Their smaller, fiercer and strictly American cousin the Cooper's hawk is a common bird where I live. I have seen them in my garden on occasion. Ospreys and Peregrine falcons, once on the verge of extinction thanks to DDT, are now quite common. A few months ago I heard and saw a Peregrine falcon calling from a eucalyptus tree bordering the Marine Stadium near my home.

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

How common are goshawks in Great Britain? In my part of the country (Southern California) they are only to be found, I believe, in high mountain forests. At least the only two times I have seen them has been at 9,000+ feet, once on Mt. San Jacinto and another time on the south slope of Mt. Baden-Powell. It is claimed they only winter here, but when I saw them it was late summer or early autumn. Their smaller, fiercer and strictly American cousin the Cooper's hawk is a common bird where I live. I have seen them in my garden on occasion. Ospreys and Peregrine falcons, once on the verge of extinction thanks to DDT, are now quite common. A few months ago I heard and saw a Peregrine falcon calling from a eucalyptus tree bordering the Marine Stadium near my home.
I think that wild goshawks are quite rare. Ospreys and peregrines - indeed many raptors - were shot as pests to game but now they are protected and making a comeback. Those used for sport in are bred in captivity and it is estimated that there are 25,000 such birds and 2,000 breeders in the UK alone. There is a licensing system to permit the taking of specific birds from the wild but it has not been exercised for a long time and the only wild raptors that can be taken are those that have been injured, to enable them to be treated and then released. They are majestic birds. I see a pair of longwings here (not sure exactly what they are as they are so fast) but they sometimes take doves off a roof at the back and, when they do, there is just a rush of air, a blur and a puff of feathers left behind! Talking of comebacks - the wild chough - once so abundant on the cliffs of Cornwall and the crest of the arms of the Duchy - completely disappeared but now they are back (possibly landing from Brittany or Ireland) and breeding successfully each year, which is tremendous.

 

[Gent]

Originally Posted by Manton

Not sure. I don't recall seeing it.

However, if you look at (say) Charles Dana Gibson drawings, everyone has a black vest. Then After about 1900 it's mostly white and after WWI it's all white.

Oddly enough, the black vest with tailcoat is still alive in unexpected parts of Europe. Apparently this is related to those countries whose universities have strong German influences. I don't know the exact sphere of influence, but at least the Nordic Countries. It's only used in the daytime, striking as it might seem, and in very specific academic occasions, such as oral defenses of doctoral dissertations. After 6 PM it's white vest with tails for formal events. Morning dress co-exists for regular daytime formal events such as weddings, but for specific academic events, it's evening dress with black waistcoat.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by Gent

Oddly enough, the black vest with tailcoat is still alive in unexpected parts of Europe. Apparently this is related to those countries whose universities have strong German influences. I don't know the exact sphere of influence, but at least the Nordic Countries. It's only used in the daytime, striking as it might seem, and in very specific academic occasions, such as oral defenses of doctoral dissertations. After 6 PM it's white vest with tails for formal events. Morning dress co-exists for regular daytime formal events such as weddings, but for specific academic events, it's evening dress with black waistcoat.

Just thought I'd share.

Academic and diplomatic practices are separate from general practice. In the UK the black vest with a dress coat was a winter time and Court mourning garment. The Little Dook had one by Scholte, as already mentioned in this thread, made long after 1900.

 

[Testudo_Aubreii]

Originally Posted by Manton

[the] stylish have to a man all shunned [the step lapel DJ].

Not a real-life man, so point taken; but, from Matt S's Suits of James Bond blog:

 

[clubman]

Sir John Mills is another exception that proves the general rule.

 

[Gent]

Originally Posted by clubman

Academic and diplomatic practices are separate from general practice. In the UK the black vest with a dress coat was a winter time and Court mourning garment. The Little Dook had one by Scholte, as already mentioned in this thread, made long after 1900.

True enough, but academia is nearly all one can resort to with the current state of formal dress. Just pointing out that in very specific circles, it's still alive, which I find heart-warming.

 

[clubman]

Originally Posted by Gent

True enough, but academia is nearly all one can resort to with the current state of formal dress. Just pointing out that in very specific circles, it's still alive, which I find heart-warming.

Yes. Three cheers! It'll remain in certain specific places.

 

[Will C.]

 

[GoldenTribe]

What I have taken from this thread is that a notch lapel dinner jacket was good enough for James Bond.

 

[JLibourel]

I thought I'd revive this thread with something I noticed last night. I was leafing through an illustrated edition of selected Sherlock Holmes stories featuring the original art work by Sidney Paget. In The Hound of the Baskervilles, lo, there were Dr. Watson and Sir Henry Baskerville wearing short dinner jackets along with white ties and vests/waistcoats--an interesting early (1901) attestation to the practice of pairing white tie and vest with the DJ.