What is causing this shoulder divot in this suit jacket?

[breakaway01]

My understanding of how shoulder divots form is that the shape of the armhole is being distorted horizontally by your upper arm. The top of your arm is stretching the armhole in the horizontal dimension. This results in the fabric of the top of the sleeve (the sleeve cap) collapsing vertically.

This is different from a sleeve pitch issue where the angle of the sleeve does not match your natural arm angle. Rotating the sleeve won’t fix your divot.

 

[breakaway01]

.

 

[Duff_Man]

It looks like a sleeve pitch issue to me, though breakaway may be correct. I do think rotating the sleeve pitch will correct it so long as the sleeve is sized correctly

 

[Aquafortis]

Good info from master tailor Jeffery Diduch.
Tutto Fatto A Mano: Shoulder Divots

 

[Beadhead]

I would suggest looking at online mens wear retailers who include the critical dimensions of their each of their jackets in the online description. If you have a jacket that fits well in all critical areas, then you can measure that jacket and compare its dimensions to the dimensions in the online descriptions. That way, you will be more likely to obtain a good fit from the start, requiring minimal fine tuning by your local tailor shop.

If you do not have such a jacket in your wardrobe, then I would suggest measuring your critical dimensions (waist, chest, shoulders, sleeve length, jacket length) as a purchasing guide, remembering to add 3 inches to the chest and waist dimensions to allow for movement. If you are not confident in measuring yourself, I'd recommend visiting a tailor or seamstress to do the measuring for you.

 

[dinamay]

Interestingly in both suits, no divots are apparent from the front view. In the smaller unstructured jacket, my shoulders even appear to fill up the entire shoulder area of the jacket from the front, and yet there appears to be plenty of excess fabric when viewed from the side. It may be that the front of my shoulders are somehow fuller than the sides/back. If this were the case, jackets that fit the shoulder from the front would tend to be too large on the side, and those that fit from the side might be too tight upfront. Wondering if it is possible to solve this in OTR or if this is just an imperfection I will always run into. Unfortunately I do not have the time or budget for MTM.

Hi! I’m a mens stylist and see this problem with some of my clients. Try adding a small shoulder pad. Just put it on your shoulder and try the jacket without doing the alteration yet to see if it helps. Sometimes it cleans it up. If your shoulders are a bit rounded this can happen. If it works then you can have a tailor add the pad permanently.

 

[C MattssonJH]

Yes the buttoning height did seem a bit high to me. For future purchases, do you know where I can find suits with a lower buttoning point? I tried OTR suits in a variety of places but I struggled to find anything with a lower buttoning point. From what I recall Charles Tyrwhitt had an even higher buttoning point.

Try a MTM suit from J.Hilburn. You can dictate the length of the jacket and in turn where the button sits.

 

[SchneiderKunstler]

Im afraid its a bit too late to go with a different jacket as I've already got the first one altered. Here is the original unstructured jacket with the waist let out and sleeves slightly shortened. The shoulder still has a divot but I think I'll have to live with it for now. Would you suggest any other alterations to the jacket?
View attachment 2245905

The jacket sleeve is, as some have said, a bit tight across the bicep, however it's not so tight that it pulls the jacket across the front/chest (and distorts the lay of the lapels) -- a quick way to analyze the issue. But that's not causing the divot in the cap. In some of the earlier photos it appeared the sleeve was not rotated sufficiently to match the arm angle. This set of photos looks better. That said, the divot, as others have mentioned, could be removed by resetting in the back section of the sleeve cap higher along the armhole, however the cap shape itself is problematic. It looks to be cut higher in the top to fit a shoulder pad, and a sleeve head, though it doesn't appear there is anything much in the shoulder or cap. So probably it's a badly-cut sleeve pattern. A different sleeve head could help some, though not solve the problem entirely. The primary issue is the cap isn't set in correctly.
The back of the jacket also, in the mid-section of the armhole, needs to be brought in to fit nicely over the shoulder blades and into the armscye, like the front. It right now bulges out in an unsightly manner, which also causes the sleeve to not fit into the armhole nicely. The sleeve, in this type of jacket cut, should roll into the armhole like the front, not lay flat -- there is enough fabric in the sleeve to do this (which would also solve some of the divot problem), the back fit of the jacket at the top of the back quarter seam doesn't allow it.
And the double vents give their usual problem of not wanting to lay flat around the buttocks... OTR is what it is. The hem, lining, etc. all need to have both iron work and hand shaping so the vents curve around the body, instead of wanting to lay flat and stick out. Too much trouble for OTR.

 

[reincarnation]

Charles Tyrwhitt employs no house tailors.

 

[semolina]

Any recommendations for tailors who can do this in London and how much do you think it would cost?

The jacket sleeve is, as some have said, a bit tight across the bicep, however it's not so tight that it pulls the jacket across the front/chest (and distorts the lay of the lapels) -- a quick way to analyze the issue. But that's not causing the divot in the cap. In some of the earlier photos it appeared the sleeve was not rotated sufficiently to match the arm angle. This set of photos looks better. That said, the divot, as others have mentioned, could be removed by resetting in the back section of the sleeve cap higher along the armhole, however the cap shape itself is problematic. It looks to be cut higher in the top to fit a shoulder pad, and a sleeve head, though it doesn't appear there is anything much in the shoulder or cap. So probably it's a badly-cut sleeve pattern. A different sleeve head could help some, though not solve the problem entirely. The primary issue is the cap isn't set in correctly.
The back of the jacket also, in the mid-section of the armhole, needs to be brought in to fit nicely over the shoulder blades and into the armscye, like the front. It right now bulges out in an unsightly manner, which also causes the sleeve to not fit into the armhole nicely. The sleeve, in this type of jacket cut, should roll into the armhole like the front, not lay flat -- there is enough fabric in the sleeve to do this (which would also solve some of the divot problem), the back fit of the jacket at the top of the back quarter seam doesn't allow it.
And the double vents give their usual problem of not wanting to lay flat around the buttocks... OTR is what it is. The hem, lining, etc. all need to have both iron work and hand shaping so the vents curve around the body, instead of wanting to lay flat and stick out. Too much trouble for OTR.

 

[reincarnation]

I hope to buy a double-breasted suit jacket in UK 42L which a local tailor from Sicily (who rejected my Hawes & Curtis 40S as too tight and recommended EU 26 which is not offered) asserted for 60 Swiss Francs he would alter a jacket at its shoulders
1) to shorten sleeve length to accomodate my SHIRT sleeve length 31.5"
and
2) narrow its shoulder breadth to my real narrow shoulders which were already amply exceeded in a UK 38S.

The reason I changed my mind about 42S and 42R is because the brand Moss cuts suit jackets so that their length hardly covers the wearer's backside or seat.

Have I overlooked something?