Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[Bromley]

I think that anything that keeps you dry from precipitation will inevitably make you damp from perspiration.

I've found Gore-Tex (as well as a few other waterproof membranes) to be not even remotely breathable. I switched out some expensive dirt bike gear a few years ago after deciding that cheaper, non-breathable waterproof options were just as effective. The eVent stuff looks interesting, but I haven't found any of the gear I need that uses it. Also tried to order cloth from eVent with no luck (even ordering commercially).

Sure, heavy wools may keep you dry for awhile, but they absorb the rain, get really heavy, and then take a while to dry. Who wants to arrive at a restaurant and find a place to put a wet, 55 lb. wool coat?

I know a couple Savile Row tailors who treat gabardine with Scotchguard when they make rain coats, but Scotchguard has to be reapplied every so often. I prefer Ventile for coats like that.

I don't know much about the LP Storm System cloth or how to order it by the meter, but I based on my own experiences I'd assume its breathability is more limited than is promoted. The Lovat Teflon tweed Simon A mentioned above sounds like an interesting alternative to the LP stuff.

 

[dieworkwear]

I think that anything that keeps you dry from precipitation will inevitably make you damp from perspiration.

I've found Gore-Tex (as well as a few other waterproof membranes) to be not even remotely breathable. I switched out some expensive dirt bike gear a few years ago after deciding that cheaper, non-breathable waterproof options were just as effective. The eVent stuff looks interesting, but I haven't found any of the gear I need that uses it. Also tried to order cloth from eVent with no luck (even ordering commercially).

Sure, heavy wools may keep you dry for awhile, but they absorb the rain, get really heavy, and then take a while to dry. Who wants to arrive at a restaurant and find a place to put a wet, 55 lb. wool coat?

I know a couple Savile Row tailors who treat gabardine with Scotchguard when they make rain coats, but Scotchguard has to be reapplied every so often. I prefer Ventile for coats like that.

I don't know much about the LP Storm System cloth or how to order it by the meter, but I based on my own experiences I'd assume its breathability is more limited than is promoted. The Lovat Teflon tweed Simon A mentioned above sounds like an interesting alternative to the LP stuff.

Curious, what other membranes did you try, and what was the shell fabric on the Gore-Tex?

I do find Gore-Tex to be somewhat gimmicky nowadays. It feels like an easily recognizable, branded fabric that commands a premium, so companies use it to make their garments look high-tech or whatever. But I think a lot depends on the outermost shell layer. If you back it against a non-breathable fabric, then it's going to be not very breathable. Getting it right requires a lot of design work, I think.

ProLite Gear on YouTube has some good gear test videos.

 

[bamgrinus]

I don't know much about the LP Storm System cloth or how to order it by the meter, but I based on my own experiences I'd assume its breathability is more limited than is promoted. The Lovat Teflon tweed Simon A mentioned above sounds like an interesting alternative to the LP stuff.

I don't know, I had a Mackintosh LP Storm System jacket and found it quite breathable. But I don't live in a very rainy climate and so didn't wear it often (plus it was too small, which is why I sold it).

 

[Winot]

Why are people worried about breathability? You gonna be jogging to the restaurant?

 

[dieworkwear]

Why are people worried about breathability? You gonna be jogging to the restaurant?

I lived in New Jersey for a while and there would be flash summer rains all the time. It was also really hot and humid. At the time, I was on a college campus and had to walk everywhere, so calling a taxi wasn't an option. I can't imagine wearing a heavy Loden wool topcoat in 90+ degree weather -- the humidity made it feel worse. I can imagine something like this being useful in those situations. Also, some people here live in parts of East Asia, where hot summer rains aren't uncommon.

 

[bamgrinus]

Why are people worried about breathability? You gonna be jogging to the restaurant?

I know that if I wear a typical raincoat during the summer I sweat like crazy. But that may depend on how prone you are to sweating to begin with.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

When it is hot and humid on the east coast no rain coat is ever bearable.

 

[dieworkwear]

When it is hot and humid on the east coast no rain coat is ever bearable.

That's true, but if you have to choose, are you going to wear Fresco or tweed?

 

[smittycl]

Funny conversation so far. Not worth wearing raincoats in DC Summers as I just sweat. I’ve had years of experience with “breathable” fabrics. Bottom line is that you will perspire if you exert yourself.

I have a light raincoat in Canali’s version of the storm system. Works well but if I walk hard or far I will sweat and still end up wet, inside and out.

Best rain protection for CM? Cotton trench coat as long as it’s not summer.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I run into this issue so often in the summer. I end up with soggy fresco pants every time.

 

[Bromley]

what was the shell fabric on the Gore-Tex?

You know, I have no idea. I thought it was all the same. Have tried Gore-Tex pants/jackets from Klim and Revit (motorcycle gear), and Burton/Analog (snowboard clothes). Can't remember company names of other waterproof membranes I've tried over the years, but they were indistinguishable from Gore-Tex to me. Are there any that you've had a good experience with? That video just has me more interested in the eVent fabric.

I don't know about those permeability tests-- they're forcing air through the material under pressure, when in reality there's not really anything like that going on inside of a jacket (let the pants/air pressure jokes roll in, however).

Why are people worried about breathability?

That sweating-inside-a-garbage-bag feeling is the worst. I start to sweat in my raincoat just sitting on the bus.

 

[Winot]

Umbrellas people, umbrellas.

 

[Winot]

(I do actually own a few LP Storm System RTW pieces. But I live in the UK)

 

[dieworkwear]

You know, I have no idea. I thought it was all the same. Have tried Gore-Tex pants/jackets from Klim and Revit (motorcycle gear), and Burton/Analog (snowboard clothes). Can't remember company names of other waterproof membranes I've tried over the years, but they were indistinguishable from Gore-Tex to me. Are there any that you've had a good experience with? That video just has me more interested in the eVent fabric.

I don't know about those permeability tests-- they're forcing air through the material under pressure, when in reality there's not really anything like that going on inside of a jacket (let the pants/air pressure jokes roll in, however).

My lifestyle isn't that demanding anymore, so I can't vouch for things personally. The Bay Area doesn't get that hot. I also will just wait out a storm or call an Uber these days. But when I was in New Jersey, I had to get from class to class, office to office, on a college campus. So I couldn't just randomly decide to hang out somewhere for two hours and wait till a storm passes. I can imagine this stuff making a difference for certain people.

Agree the air pump test may not be a reliable test of someone's experience. This stuff is a constant debate among outdoors enthusiasts. Here's a test that doesn't rely on a pump, but shows some air permeability. I don't think the question is "which fabric won't make you sweat." But which fabric will make you sweat less.

 

[smittycl]

Umbrellas people, umbrellas.

The impact of climate change on my region means shorter, stronger storms. Over the summer I carried a nice umbrella and ended up soaked from the chin down in several occasions.

**** was blowing horizontally...