Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[classicalthunde]

might be better for the ongoing bespoke projects thread - I'm not going to phrase this right, but are trousers "easier" to make than jackets? that is, less work to draft patterns, variables to account for in fittings, etc. ?

personally, I've found that OTR jackets do not work for me due to my frame, but OTR trousers with some minor alterations work pretty well...is this common for folks?

The only serious benefit to having custom trousers for me is to be able to pick out the fabric and design details

 

[dieworkwear]

might be better for the ongoing bespoke projects thread - I'm not going to phrase this right, but are trousers "easier" to make than jackets? that is, less work to draft patterns, variables to account for in fittings, etc. ?

personally, I've found that OTR jackets do not work for me due to my frame, but OTR trousers with some minor alterations work pretty well...is this common for folks?

The only serious benefit to having custom trousers for me is to be able to pick out the fabric and design details

Yes, my impression is that trousers are easier to make. A cutter on Savile Row once told me that there's friendly ribbing between head cutters and trouser cutters. The person said the jokes usually revolve around something like, "how hard can it be to draft a few straight lines?"

My impression is that everyone has their own fit issues. A couple of years ago, I helped a friend find a suit for his wedding, and then after that build a small wardrobe for his work. I was surprised to find that I had to think very differently about clothes when trying to find something for another person. My own preferences and thoughts didn't necessarily translate onto him because I have a very different build (narrow shoulder, cubicle farmer body, slim-ish build). My friend is very tall (6'4") and has a very athletic build. He stands differently, has a different body type, etc. I had to figure out his fit issues, which were different from mine.

That said, I think it's easier to alter OTR trousers to fit. When I took my trousers into a shop to be altered, I found that the main problem I have is that I stand with my knees locked and hips forward, which creates rippling down the back legs. The tailor there said that some men who are athletic stand with the opposite posture -- knees are not locked and hips may be a bit back. I've found that I can solve my own trouser fit issue by just shortening the back rise and letting out the crotch, but doing so requires there to be enough fabric inside. Perhaps if you have different fit and posture issues, you may need to find other solutions.

I still mostly buy bespoke pants for the tailored side of my wardrobe because I find it fun. But I mostly rely on Italian tailors and Tailor's Keep now, who charge less than Steed. There are some trouser makers who will copy a pair of pants for you for about $300-400 CMT. They all work under the table and my impression is that the system is very hush-hush, as these people are moonlighting. But if you can find somewhat like that, and you don't have ethical issues about getting a pattern copied, that could be another route.

 

[classicalthunde]

Yes, my impression is that trousers are easier to make. A cutter on Savile Row once told me that there's friendly ribbing between head cutters and trouser cutters. The person said the jokes usually revolve around something like, "how hard can it be to draft a few straight lines?"

My impression is that everyone has their own fit issues. A couple of years ago, I helped a friend find a suit for his wedding, and then after that build a small wardrobe for his work. I was surprised to find that I had to think very differently about clothes when trying to find something for another person. My own preferences and thoughts didn't necessarily translate onto him because I have a very different build (narrow shoulder, cubicle farmer body, slim-ish build). My friend is very tall (6'4") and has a very athletic build. He stands differently, has a different body type, etc. I had to figure out his fit issues, which were different from mine.

That said, I think it's easier to alter OTR trousers to fit. When I took my trousers into a shop to be altered, I found that the main problem I have is that I stand with my knees locked and hips forward, which creates rippling down the back legs. The tailor there said that some men who are athletic stand with the opposite posture -- knees are not locked and hips may be a bit back. I've found that I can solve my own trouser fit issue by just shortening the back rise and letting out the crotch, but doing so requires there to be enough fabric inside. Perhaps if you have different fit and posture issues, you may need to find other solutions.

I still mostly buy bespoke pants for the tailored side of my wardrobe because I find it fun. But I mostly rely on Italian tailors and Tailor's Keep now, who charge less than Steed. There are some trouser makers who will copy a pair of pants for you for about $300-400 CMT. They all work under the table and my impression is that the system is very hush-hush, as these people are moonlighting. But if you can find somewhat like that, and you don't have ethical issues about getting a pattern copied, that could be another route.

Thanks! All of my trousers so far have been MTM so far, so I don't think there is any real material real benefit to having someone else copy them. They are all pretty good but they've never "wow-ed" me either. Part of me wonders if a great fitting trouser is just not as noticeable as a great fitting jacket from the wearers perspective

I'm toying with the idea of getting some proper bespoke trousers when I Sarti starts up their trunk shows again to see if it is significantly different than the other options I've tried. If there trouser pricing is proportional to their jacket pricing, that seems promising.

I know that "everyone is different" but ball park for a trouser length of a plain pattern cloth for someone with an outseam of 40" and a 38" waist? 1.5-2 meters?

 

[dieworkwear]

Thanks! All of my trousers so far have been MTM so far, so I don't think there is any real material real benefit to having someone else copy them. They are all pretty good but they've never "wow-ed" me either. Part of me wonders if a great fitting trouser is just not as noticeable as a great fitting jacket from the wearers perspective

I'm toying with the idea of getting some proper bespoke trousers when I Sarti starts up their trunk shows again to see if it is significantly different than the other options I've tried. If there trouser pricing is proportional to their jacket pricing, that seems promising.

I know that "everyone is different" but ball park for a trouser length of a plain pattern cloth for someone with an outseam of 40" and a 38" waist? 1.5-2 meters?

I've always gone by:

2.5 meters for a sport coat
1.5 meters for a pair of trousers

But I know some people have been able to get away with less (e.g. 2 meters for a sport coat). I've never bought fabric just for trousers alone, only for suits and sport coats. When purchasing a pair of odd pants, I've always gone with a fabric from the books. I would just check with your tailor.

 

[rjkabk]

I've always gone by:

2.5 meters for a sport coat
1.5 meters for a pair of trousers

But I know some people have been able to get away with less (e.g. 2 meters for a sport coat). I've never bought fabric just for trousers alone, only for suits and sport coats. When purchasing a pair of odd pants, I've always gone with a fabric from the books. I would just check with your tailor.

I agree that jackets are harder to make than trousers and I too find off the rack trousers that fit me with a couple alterations. But there are certain details like my DAKS side adjusters that I can’t find off the rack and then I like the fabric selection and supporting the only local bespoke tailor I’m aware of.

 

[dukeaw]

Just got back from final fitting on 2 bespoke Crispaire trousers. My tailor did a great deal for me. 2 for $1000 instead of $700 per pair. I didnt really need them but figured I'd help him out since I've been buying less this past year. Only he's getting pushy on trying to sell me additional items. I'm sure he's hurting a lot right now that everyone is wearing sweatpants...

 

[aristoi bcn]

Talking about trousers, neapolitan trouser makers use shirting or cotton to line the waistband whereas the british tailors use a similar/same fabric as the one used in the jackets. Do you know what material is it?

 

[dukeaw]

Talking about trousers, neapolitan trouser makers use shirting or cotton to line the waistband whereas the british tailors use a similar/same fabric as the one used in the jackets. Do you know what material is it?

Viscose/Bemberg?

 

[Sreezy36]

In regards to odd trousers, which types of trousers do you guys prefer buy bespoke vs rtw/mtm? For example, I see more value in buying nicer moderately worn trousers (ie: flannels, fresco, linen, nice worsteds) via bespoke in comparison to heavily worn “beater” trousers (ie: chinos and regular worsteds).

 

[jonathanS]

It looks like Dieworkwear has run out of topics. No worries I’ll help him.

Is anyone willing to pay a kings ransom for bespoke trousers? I want to support my tailor but trousers over $1k is just asinine. Should I complain and pushback or look else where?

Where do you guys draw the line on exorbitant prices for bespoke clothes.

I’m with you on this. I had a tailor quote me 1200 for a pair of trousers to go with the suit jacket. I ended up getting a sports jacket instead. 1200 is out of control. Even 1000 is out of control.

 

[rob]

Well I wish knew this before I purchased 20 or trousers from my tailor.

rob

 

[ericgereghty]

My Tailor starts at $600 for bespoke trousers. Goes up depending on cloth. I even find that Is more than I would like to pay, however the construction is good and since I prefer DAKS style side adjusters I bite the bullet and pay. But I’m a bit of a minimalist, at least by this forums standards, so I don’t buy that many odd trousers...

How recently was this price quoted/charged? That's an eye watering uptick from my experiences with MyTailor.
Admittedly, it's entirely possible my work with MyTailor would not have been considered proper bespoke, so I could be conflating two different entities.

 

[lordsuperb]

How recently was this price quoted/charged? That's an eye watering uptick from my experiences with MyTailor.
Admittedly, it's entirely possible my work with MyTailor would not have been considered proper bespoke, so I could be conflating two different entities.

It’s around 479 without a fitting. Add $150 for a basted fitting.

I just sent them a pair of trousers to copy.

 

[lordsuperb]

I’m with you on this. I had a tailor quote me 1200 for a pair of trousers to go with the suit jacket. I ended up getting a sports jacket instead. 1200 is out of control. Even 1000 is out of control.

It’s all about what the market is willing to put up with.

 

[dieworkwear]

In regards to odd trousers, which types of trousers do you guys prefer buy bespoke vs rtw/mtm? For example, I see more value in buying nicer moderately worn trousers (ie: flannels, fresco, linen, nice worsteds) via bespoke in comparison to heavily worn “beater” trousers (ie: chinos and regular worsteds).

For me, the dividing line is casual versus tailored. For casual outfits (meaning, things that don't involve a suit jacket or sport coat), I'm fine with and often prefer ready-to-wear trousers. But with a tailored outfit, I prefer to go bespoke.

If I had to limit them, however, I would stay away from cotton just because it doesn't drape as cleanly and sometimes can fade in patchy ways, depending on the color. I would also just get the materials I wear most, which are tropical wool for summer and whipcord for fall/ winter. I want to try the Drapers 5 Star. I handled a pair and they felt really nice.

Some bespoke trousers I bought that don't get that much wear: chinos, sharkskin, and linen.