Tom Ford Suit - Filleted and Gutted

[Gatsbyu]

Actually, adding fusible between the forepart and canvas is just to avoid rippling on the finished garment. And rippling is caused by improper way of basting the canvas and not enough pressing. So, if any brand wants to go mass production, they need to make sure the workers able to make a clean look garment and fusible is a good way to reduce the defeated products.

 

[EzraPaul]



Hey Ezra,

You have nice suits. Any options for wider lapels?

Thanks! I run 2 3/4 for rtw, but can do any width.

 

[EzraPaul]



Actually, adding fusible between the forepart and canvas is just to avoid rippling on the finished garment. And rippling is caused by improper way of basting the canvas and not enough pressing. So, if any brand wants to go mass production, they need to make sure the workers able to make a clean look garment and fusible is a good way to reduce the defeated products.

And that is why most mass-produced garments are fused. But with regard to adding heft to lightweight fabrics on canvassed pieces, this doesn't seem like the way to go. I've never seen fully canvassed with full fusing. That's like plating gold jewelry with aluminum.

 

[Mark Seitelman]



Oxxford?

Correct. No fusing in an Oxxford coat.

There is nothing special about this Tom Ford coat except the high price and the designer name attached to it.

E.g.,

1. The pick-stitching is by machine. The Italians love this machine which imitates hand work. They have developed a machine which makes uneven stitches on the front side so that it can look like hand sewing. However, it is an imitation. It is like artificial coffee creamer as compared to real milk.

2. The collar is fused. I have never seen this. Either the canvas is hand sewn or machine sewn at the collar, and the top layer of cloth is sewn to the collar.

3. The lapels are machine sewn.

With so much machine work and fusing, the garment is very overpriced for what it is. It is basically a machine-made suit with some hand elements. I can cite a suit with more handwork at less than half the price. The Tom Ford name carries a premium. The label should be worn on the outside so that the owner gets full value for his purchase.

 

[jonng85]

Correct. No fusing in an Oxxford coat.

There is nothing special about this Tom Ford coat except the high price and the designer name attached to it.

E.g.,

1. The pick-stitching is by machine. The Italians love this machine which imitates hand work. They have developed a machine which makes uneven stitches on the front side so that it can look like hand sewing. However, it is an imitation. It is like artificial coffee creamer as compared to real milk.

2. The collar is fused. I have never seen this. Either the canvas is hand sewn or machine sewn at the collar, and the top layer of cloth is sewn to the collar.

3. The lapels are machine sewn.

With so much machine work and fusing, the garment is very overpriced for what it is. It is basically a machine-made suit with some hand elements. I can cite a suit with more handwork at less than half the price. The Tom Ford name carries a premium. The label should be worn on the outside so that the owner gets full value for his purchase.

Interesting. I had always assumed Tom Ford suits were high quality since it's been grouped into the tier 1 of the RTW hierarchy list. I guess it's safe to assume your assessment applies to Zegna Couture suits as well?

 

[TRINI]

http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.ca/2010/10/tom-ford.html

 

[Gatsbyu]

I do see a lot " full fused + full canvassed " custom made suits. As I said, if a customer wants to make full canvassed suit with light weight fabric (say 180s), the tailor can either baste it very carefully (difficult to baste with shape) or simply use fusible to reduce rippling. And, basting is not an easy task.

 

[othertravel]

Tom Ford does offer a handmade option through MTM, but it has a 50% markup.

Even though TF OTR does have some fusing, it's still a well made suit. And it's still (slightly) cheaper than Kiton.

 

[clee1982]



Correct. No fusing in an Oxxford coat.

There is nothing special about this Tom Ford coat except the high price and the designer name attached to it.

E.g.,

1. The pick-stitching is by machine. The Italians love this machine which imitates hand work. They have developed a machine which makes uneven stitches on the front side so that it can look like hand sewing. However, it is an imitation. It is like artificial coffee creamer as compared to real milk.

2. The collar is fused. I have never seen this. Either the canvas is hand sewn or machine sewn at the collar, and the top layer of cloth is sewn to the collar.

3. The lapels are machine sewn.

With so much machine work and fusing, the garment is very overpriced for what it is. It is basically a machine-made suit with some hand elements. I can cite a suit with more handwork at less than half the price. The Tom Ford name carries a premium. The label should be worn on the outside so that the owner gets full value for his purchase.

it's hard to get the Tom Ford shape, and I think a lot customer will find that is more important than how much hand work there is..., I have seen so many uninspiring bespoke work that even if it's100% hand made I wouldn't care...

 

[othertravel]

Word!

 

[Mark Seitelman]



it's hard to get the Tom Ford shape, and I think a lot customer will find that is more important than how much hand work there is..., I have seen so many uninspiring bespoke work that even if it's100% hand made I wouldn't care...

I agree that if you want a Tom Ford suit, buy a Tom Ford suit. I would not recommend going to Hickey Freeman's MTM service and ask them to make a Tom Ford suit.

 

[EzraPaul]



I do see a lot " full fused + full canvassed " custom made suits. As I said, if a customer wants to make full canvassed suit with light weight fabric (say 180s), the tailor can either baste it very carefully (difficult to baste with shape) or simply use fusible to reduce rippling. And, basting is not an easy task.

I haven't personally come across this, but it seems totally counterproductive to canvas and fuse. If the padding is attached to the canvas first like in the photo I posted above, I don't see how it would require any more shaping than a standard canvas? I get that the fusing would be attached to the fabric instead of to the canvas, but again, that seems unnecessary.

 

[Gatsbyu]

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2227

Basting is not done totally on flat surface and it needs lots of techniques, the way you baste (shaping I called), do have significant impact on the finished garment. And, for fuse + canvas, it is not the best way to handle, but easier for many tailors who need to finish their orders within short period of time. If it is counterproductive, those tailors are screwing up their work and still happy with the result. Is it possible ? For the people doing this for living ?

 

[EzraPaul]



http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2227

Basting is not done totally on flat surface and it needs lots of techniques, the way you baste (shaping I called), do have significant impact on the finished garment. And, for fuse + canvas, it is not the best way to handle, but easier for many tailors who need to finish their orders within short period of time. If it is counterproductive, those tailors are screwing up their work and still happy with the result. Is it possible ? For the people doing this for living ?

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. And as a person that does this for a living, I promise you I fully understand basting and giving the two dimensional chest panel a 3rd dimension. Here is what I am trying to say:

Whether or not you attach a fusible material to the fabric, you are still going to have to baste either the fabric or the fabric + fusing to the canvas. Adding a fusible layer doesn't change the overall process if there is also a full canvas. My point is that rather than using fusing to beef up a light fabric, you can sew felt onto the canvas. This is how any reputable tailor/factory would combat the light fabric issue, not with fusing, primarily so they are not risking delamination:

It's a little hard to see, but in the second picture an additional piece of felt has been sewn to the canvas to add structure. This is the only way I have ever seen a fully canvassed jacket made. I'm not saying there aren't others that do it that way, but the entire purpose of fusing is to eliminate the canvas, which as you've noted requires time and skill to attach. In the method that you are describing, you'd get the negatives of the fusing (namely delamination), without the positives of fusing (time and thus money saved by removing the shaping step). I hope that makes sense.

 

[Gatsbyu]

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. And as a person that does this for a living, I promise you I fully understand basting and giving the two dimensional chest panel a 3rd dimension. Here is what I am trying to say:

Whether or not you attach a fusible material to the fabric, you are still going to have to baste either the fabric or the fabric + fusing to the canvas. Adding a fusible layer doesn't change the overall process if there is also a full canvas. My point is that rather than using fusing to beef up a light fabric, you can sew felt onto the canvas. This is how any reputable tailor/factory would combat the light fabric issue, not with fusing, primarily so they are not risking delamination:




It's a little hard to see, but in the second picture an additional piece of felt has been sewn to the canvas to add structure. This is the only way I have ever seen a fully canvassed jacket made. I'm not saying there aren't others that do it that way, but the entire purpose of fusing is to eliminate the canvas, which as you've noted requires time and skill to attach. In the method that you are describing, you'd get the negatives of the fusing (namely delamination), without the positives of fusing (time and thus money saved by removing the shaping step). I hope that makes sense.

It is nothing to do with the felt. The felt is used only to make the chest "fuller" through proper pad stitching. On the other hand, fusible is used to reduce rippling in case the tailor didn't baste or sew properly, and, improve draping in case there is no canvas / not full canvassed inside the garment.

Of cause, for any tailor charging thousands of dollars for a bespoke suit, he/she is supposed to handle the garment carefully and fusible is not acceptable. But, for low-mid end tailors / garment factories, for some of them, it may be better to use fuse + canvas to increase efficiency.

Btw, the bridle in the jacket you shown is off and makes the bridle almost meaningless. The bridle should catch the felt, pad stitched and this is the proper way to do.