The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Benjamin Chee HH]

What are the parameters? I mean, surely there are some guard rails as to what can and cant be done, so that would be helpful to know. Pricing, etc.

I'll start a thread and you guys are welcome to post your thoughts.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]

I'm not a businessman, so I really have little idea about how to run a business (and should probably just shut up!).

However, I can't help but wonder whether Benjamin is making a mistake with all of these different brands. First Maison Celadon, then Atelier Millesime, and now BCHH. I guess that, by doing so, he gets to pitch different brands at different market segments, with different levels of cost and/or refinement.

However, most brands strive for brand recognition, and try to sell products that can be associated back with that brand name. Benjamin seems to be going in the opposite direction, of having a different brand for each product (even though all of his products are watches). It seems difficult to really capitalise on his previous brands as a result.

Hi Journeyman, please feel free to send me feedback. I certainly appreciate all of your thoughts.

The reasoning behind having the three brands is that they each encompass a distinct brand identity, essentially a reflection of my various passions. Maison Celadon's mission is to create the very finest Chinese watches, with original, characterful designs inspired by Chinese history and culture. We are therefore limited to using only high-quality Chinese movements and artisans, in pursuit of this goal.

I started Atelier Millésime in 2018 because of my love for vintage watches of the Art Deco period and 1950s, and wanted to create "fantasy vintage" watches that never actually existed, but should have. And of course, we raise the quality to far beyond their vintage counterparts, using Vaucher movements and Swiss components.

Benjamin Chee Haute Horlogerie, my flagship brand, is a reflection of my passion for collecting fine art and high craftsmanship, and through this brand I endeavour to create the finest watches in the world, utterly unencumbered by cost. We will bring a unique vision to the world of high horology, and will be world-leading in at least one area, if not several. At this moment, apart from having the best enamel, silk and jade dials in the world, we are also the first in the world to create celadon jade dials, and first in the world to use the new Vaucher micro-rotor movements and ultra-thin tourbillon.

Each of my three brands comprise much more than a single product, and while distinct, they are united in my mission to create Watches of Excellence at every price point, and to be a Force for Good, in supporting the care of homeless and abandoned dogs, and supporting the perpetuation of near-extinct crafts with ancient traditions.

 

[Benjamin Chee HH]

Come join in the fun and vote for your new forum watch guys!

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/vote-for-the-new-styleforum-forum-watch.646601/

 

[LA Guy]

I like the idea of the Maison Celadon, which to me is the most distinctive of the lines, and at a reasonably accessible price for many of our members to boot. But it's up to you guys.

 

[am55]

Come join in the fun and vote for your new forum watch guys!

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/vote-for-the-new-styleforum-forum-watch.646601/

Wish I had more time... Got many ideas...

Did you consider reviving the Cartier mystérieuses? Your dials are the stars, or a good chunk of the attraction anyway. Could use the dial itself to tell the time instead of tagging hands on, or to move the hands. If you use a French name though shoot me or Clouseau a PM first for feedback

 

[Contango]

I'm a digital marketer turned private equity entrepreneur

It’s like I wandered into LinkedIn by mistake

 

[MrUnderwood]

@LA Guy
I somewhat get your point, but i think we see things quite differently. Well, IKEA actually has quality products, not all, but it can be found, so IKEA is completely opposite than MVMT. MVMT has none quality what so ever. So too admire MVMT is impossible unless you are just utterly hollow - which of course resonates great with marketing people. As i mentioned they prey on impressionable youth. A Seiko 5 can be found cheaper than a MVMT, and it has a decent movement - and for the money - quite good quality. MVMT is just cheap product with flashy marketing, but again i get your point, you can surely admire that.........

 

[Riva]

We won't be doing the forum watch with my flagship brand BCHH. In any case, we'll let members decide on the movement, specs and therefore price point of the forum watch.

At a glance it looks like Beech or Beach. I'd very much prefer a more elegant image logo instead of letters.

 

[LA Guy]

@LA Guy
I somewhat get your point, but i think we see things quite differently. Well, IKEA actually has quality products, not all, but it can be found, so IKEA is completely opposite than MVMT. MVMT has none quality what so ever. So too admire MVMT is impossible unless you are just utterly hollow - which of course resonates great with marketing people. As i mentioned they prey on impressionable youth. A Seiko 5 can be found cheaper than a MVMT, and it has a decent movement - and for the money - quite good quality. MVMT is just cheap product with flashy marketing, but again i get your point, you can surely admire that.........

Ikea is pretty much balsa wood furniture. MVMT watches? They work just as well as any watch. And they are aesthetically pleasing to their customers. I think that you just have a unreasonable and unfounded dislike of marketing.

 

[Scuppers]

@LA Guy
I somewhat get your point, but i think we see things quite differently. Well, IKEA actually has quality products, not all, but it can be found, so IKEA is completely opposite than MVMT. MVMT has none quality what so ever. So too admire MVMT is impossible unless you are just utterly hollow - which of course resonates great with marketing people. As i mentioned they prey on impressionable youth. A Seiko 5 can be found cheaper than a MVMT, and it has a decent movement - and for the money - quite good quality. MVMT is just cheap product with flashy marketing, but again i get your point, you can surely admire that.........

I never thought this argument would be required: -
Rolex, heard of it? Restructure lead to better movements and super slick marketing (and it’s a charity too boot!), didn’t negate cheap (relative) flashy marketed product (guilty, i own two).
I say: research your market; place your product; count your receipts.
If it’s a sophisticated market you want, marketing can achieve!
Judgement achieves little.

 

[earthdragon]

Where da' watch pics?....

 

[Riva]

Where da' watch pics?....

It's cheaper to talk than buy and show.

 

[am55]

Come join in the fun and vote for your new forum watch guys!

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/vote-for-the-new-styleforum-forum-watch.646601/

Some further developments of the mysterieuse idea. @gfmozart, who is a bit of a Chinese classicist and scholar, is going to make fun of me but that's OK.

In his In Praise of Shadows, Tanizaki discusses Chinese aesthetics and I think two aspects would be relevant here.

The first is the idea of translucence, which is why the Mystere idea has been digging the back of my mind ever since you announced the jade dials. In candlelight, the translucent jade takes on extra dimensions. Why do the hands have to be on top, clearly delineated? Perhaps the jade could be first, with the time "hidden" underneath, barely distinguishable through the stone, or appearing as shadows through clever light play, refraction, optical engineering. These watches are not, primarily, time keepers, but jewelry, a celebration of form, of a certain purity... dare I say timelessness or will the Instagram crowd flood us with quotes about "timepieces".

Tanizaki: "when we see that shadowy surface, we think how Chinese it is, we seem to find in its cloudiness the accumulation of the long Chinese past, we think how appropriate it is that the Chinese should admire that surface and that shadow"

Second, Tanizaki talks of the Eastern love of the patina, which can only arise if the object is touched repeatedly over time. And this is something that your watches currently do not offer. Behind the sapphire, the stone is kept pristine. I'm not sure how this idea could be reified. A stone case would presumably be rather brittle or cumbersome. Maybe that is the idea behind Cartier's crown cabochons?

Tanizaki: "Of course this “sheen of antiquity” of which we hear so much is in fact the glow of grime. In both Chinese and Japanese the words denoting this glow describe a polish that comes of being touched over and over again, a sheen produced by the oils that naturally permeate an object over long years of handling"

Finally, I wouldn't mind seeing a hong lou meng theme, perhaps not overt but in passing, abstract references. Aside from the popularity of the work in the West coinciding with the period referenced by your most recent brand (right time and place for an idea, etc.), there we get back to this idea of translucence and opacity (of the nature of truth in this case), and the inescapable cycle of rise and fall.

Relevant bit from the Hawkes translation: "The monk, catching sight of a lustrous, translucent stone – it was in fact the rejected building block which had now shrunk itself to the size of a fan-pendant and looked very attractive in its new shape – took it up on the palm of his hand and addressed it with a smile: ‘Ha, I see you have magical properties! But nothing to recommend you. I shall have to cut a few words on you so that anyone seeing you will know at once that you are something special."

 

[earthdragon]

haHa

 

[am55]

Couldn't imagine a brand further removed.

Curious why it reminded you of it.