The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Dachshund]

Like the NATO. Looking for something to jazz up my speedy. Was considering a lairy Jean Rousseau leather strap in red or something offensive. How much will omega want to relieve me of for that NATO?

 

[firenze_rob]

180 for the Omega, the JR is 155 USD.

Omega is like 10 blocks closer to me; which with two kids is already worth the premium.

 

[usctrojans31]

So, I have been looking for a three-hand dress watch and one of the pieces I am considering is the Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionelle:


(not my pic)

I went to the VC dealer over the weekend and tried one on. It is a beautiful watch, with a lovely dial and the strap was very well made, with alligator on both sides, similar to what FPJ is doing. Anyways, it's not that I want to nitpick, but I know that my brethren here will indulge me, so here it goes:

1) I really hate the sides of the watch. If you look in the pic above, you can see that it has facets, or "steps" in the case. It is the sort of feature I expect to see on a steel sports watch and not on a dressier piece. For some reason I expect gold, dress watches to have rounded sides. Am I being overly fussy?

2) The watch did not seem to have much "heft" to it. I guess I was expecting it to be heavier, but perhaps due to the faceting they shaved a few grams off.

3) The winding mechanism did not feel as smooth as other HW watches I've tried, for example from ALS or Cartier (CPCP line).

I am certainly not bashing the watch, nor is it completely off my list, since it still fulfills some criteria, but I was somewhat let down after handling it in person, which I suppose is the main lesson here. Perhaps I got too hyped after reading the Hodinkee three-on-three review from a few years back:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/three-on-three-manual-dress-watch
Anyone else handle the watch lately and care to comment?

I personally find VC to be insanely overpriced on almost all models. JLC is 95% of the watch at 65% of the price. And both are serviced by the exact same people, so you're not really losing anything in terms of shelf-life.

 

[Dachshund]

Thanks. Looks pretty fly.

 

[am55]

I personally find VC to be insanely overpriced on almost all models. JLC is 95% of the watch at 65% of the price. And both are serviced by the exact same people, so you're not really losing anything in terms of shelf-life.

Sounds like JLC is 65% of the Veblen good. It does matter, sometimes.

 

[Dino944]

So, I have been looking for a three-hand dress watch and one of the pieces I am considering is the Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Traditionelle:

(not my pic)

I went to the VC dealer over the weekend and tried one on. It is a beautiful watch, with a lovely dial and the strap was very well made, with alligator on both sides, similar to what FPJ is doing. Anyways, it's not that I want to nitpick, but I know that my brethren here will indulge me, so here it goes:

1) I really hate the sides of the watch. If you look in the pic above, you can see that it has facets, or "steps" in the case. It is the sort of feature I expect to see on a steel sports watch and not on a dressier piece. For some reason I expect gold, dress watches to have rounded sides. Am I being overly fussy?

2) The watch did not seem to have much "heft" to it. I guess I was expecting it to be heavier, but perhaps due to the faceting they shaved a few grams off.

3) The winding mechanism did not feel as smooth as other HW watches I've tried, for example from ALS or Cartier (CPCP line).

I am certainly not bashing the watch, nor is it completely off my list, since it still fulfills some criteria, but I was somewhat let down after handling it in person, which I suppose is the main lesson here. Perhaps I got too hyped after reading the Hodinkee three-on-three review from a few years back:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/three-on-three-manual-dress-watch
Anyone else handle the watch lately and care to comment?

Yes, I handled this watch, but the white gold version a few years ago. I was offered a great deal by a friend at a VC AD that was losing its contract with VC. Unfortunately, they only had it in white gold, and I don't really like white gold watches. If they had had it in rose, I'd probably have bought it. I rather like the case and the sides. I don't think I'd describe it as having faceted sides. There are different sections to the case, but to me it seemed the sides were flat. Even after looking at several photos, I can't see anything that fits your use of the term faceted case. I find dress watches with rounded sides a bit stodgy looking on some watches. VC is not the only company to have flat case sides, Lange usually has flat sides and some Patek Calatravas and Piaget Altiplanos do also. I am wondering if your description of faceted case sides is really just how the bezel attaches to the case and how it looks from a side view? Again, I liked the watch, but you have to love something if you are buying it. If you hate how part of it looks, it may not be the watch for you.

I did not have any issues with its heft or your perceived lack of heft. It felt fine on my wrist. Did you go in wearing a heavy sports watch prior to trying it on? That may account for its lack of heft to you.

As for winding smoothness, its been a while, but I don't remember that being an issue for me. Wishing you luck with whatever you decide.

I personally find VC to be insanely overpriced on almost all models. JLC is 95% of the watch at 65% of the price. And both are serviced by the exact same people, so you're not really losing anything in terms of shelf-life.

Almost all watches have become insanely overpriced in the last 10+ years. As for your description : 95% of the watch at 65% of the price, yes and no. Sure JLCs are often less expensive than their VC siblings. The difference is VCs are more collectible, and if you ever tire of one and want to sell or trade it you can. JLCs are lovely watches, and some day I'd like to pick up an ultra thin Reverso, but I don't think I'd ever spend more than $10K on a JLC. A friend has a stunning limited edition platinum JLC, MSRP was $28,000 and he bought it brand new from an AD for $20K in 2004 or 2005. Fast forward to 2010, he decides he doesn't wear it much, and wants to sell it for something else, maybe not even a watch. He brought it to a few high end watch places, no one wanted it, and it was in nearly perfect condition. A few places said, if it were a Patek, AP, VC, AL&S, Rolex or Cartier we'd buy it, but we won't purchase JLCs, GPs, etc. there just isn't a good market for them particularly their high end pieces.

So you might save when you buy a JLC, but you may have a tough time selling it if you tire of it or want something else, or you may take a bath on it. Obviously, people should buy what they like and not be focused purely on resale, but if you are someone who is fickle when it comes to watches, JLC may not be a good brand to purchase.

 

[Texasmade]

I've always liked the JLC Duometre line with the unique complications until I actually tried one on the wrist. Just didn't sit right on me but they look great on the JLC website.

 

[BLAUGRANA]

As regards the VC, I would get a Lange instead. I hate to say that without throwing out a reference, but for whatever you could get that VC for I'm sure you could get a Lange.

As for JLC, I think you have to really careful as to which watch you choose. For example I would be fine paying over $10k for a rose gold Geophysic 1958 where as I wouldn't go that route for a rose gold Geophysic True Second.

 

[firenze_rob]

Agree with @BLAUGRANA . Of the three i'd get the Lange. If you're dropping any modicum of money on a watch, probably best to find something that you like. I do own the Journe Soververain in platinum. The dial is a little different than the Bleu.

Some other considerations in the 20-30k range: Breguet Classique, VC 1907 enamel dial (IMO - the case is a little more refined compared to the patrimony you show), Jaquet Droz grande seconde (love it or hate it), GP 1966 small seconds.

Are all Richmont watches serviced by the same technicians? I suppose this may be true in distributor countries, but I've always asked for my pieces to be sent back to the manufacturer.

 

[mimo]

...a three-hand dress watch...the Patrimony Traditionelle

The platinum one feels better in the hand to me, but of course you chose gold for a reason. Maybe take a look at the Patrimony Contemporary? Most are two handers, but there is one previous version with a smalls seconds. I think Jomashop still have some at 30%+ discount which seems like a decent deal for a gold "big three".

...a Lange instead...throwing out a reference...JLC?

I like JLC just fine, but whether it's just brand snobbery affecting me or a real difference, I don't see them as that close. The JLCs that draw me are those with a quirk - the Reverso is unique, for example. But their dress watches I find a little bland. I like the TheWAT rock star MUT Moon just fine, but way more with the dark dial for some character.

Lange, on the other hand, makes me weak at the knees. To get the same price as a discounted Patrimony, you'd have to go for the Saxonia Thin. A bit more expensive are the 1815s (used ones can be surprisingly cheap, especially if the smaller 36mm version suits), or the standard Saxonia with its small seconds. But if you didn't like the steep case sides on the Traditionelle, you might fine only the Sax Thin is dainty enough. The 1815 is a right little lump - I love it, but each to his own. However, if I were a big boy baller, a used Richard Lange would be on my wrist. It's relatively large for a dress watch but so subtle, and yet oozes that deliberate Glashuette functionality and attention to detail.

If you're dropping any modicum of money on a watch, probably best to find something that you like...$20-30k...Journe...Breguet...Jaquet Droz...GP 1966...Are all Richemont watches serviced by the same technicians?

I don't think you have to go anywhere near $20k for a discounted VC. The Breguet and JD are definitely worth shopping for a grey or mint used deal, and the GPs are comfortably in the four figure range. All good calls anyway. Some of those JDs with the enamel dials are really special - though they tend to be rather big, and let someone else take the depreciation bath. I have a soft spot for GP, though I always think of quirky chronos rather than dress watches when I think of them.

But yeah, buy what you like: never a truer word spoken. It sounds obvious, but I guess we all have a tendency to over-think this stuff sometimes, especially when we know we're going to discuss it with knowledgeable watch buffs. Get some things on the wrist, choose what really sings to you, then shop around for the best deal on that. If it's a limited Dr Dre edition rose gold Hublot that touches the heart, who cares what some dude on the internet thinks? (And really, I'd love to see that!) For sure there is a world of choice out there.

As for technicians, I know Lange do all their own stuff exclusively. How much sharing the Swiss Richemont brands do I couldn't say.

Impulse buy...looked great...no historical context for a NATO on a speedmaster, but sometimes it's good to be a chav. Also, incoming....

Well chavved, Sir! I guess as James Bond now wears an Omega you could call it a witty hommage. But it looks cool anyway.

 

[firenze_rob]

^^The one i really wanted was the black one with the grey border; which is on order. After having the kids for the day, I'd figure I'd treat myself.

 

[dan'l]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, guys. I suppose it was a bit harsh to write "I hate" when referring to the sides of the VC, but I never expected it when I was researching the watch online. I guess it was also more obvious, since I was at an JLC AD just a few moments earlier and looked at the True Second in gold just for fun. It was there that it struck me that the case with angled edges and bezels seemed appropriate in steel, but somehow in gold it didn't work, at least for me.

I found a better shot of the sides of the VC (again not my pic), hopefully illustrating my point:

I guess I would have preferred a "meatier" lug, instead of them cutting it back on the underside. I wasn't wearing a heavy sport watch when I tried the piece on, so I don't think there was any "weight bias" as I handled it.

I find myself going back and forth on Lange. For a very long time I wanted an 1815 ab/auf. Then I read that the winding isn't as smooth as on the small-seconds version, so I started considering that one instead. I also considered the automatic version, since it has such a great movement. Now I am considering other pieces, including an FPJ, which brings me to my current dilemma (if buying such watches could ever be considered one!)...

Anyways, I'm still tire-kicking at this point - in some ways I find the search to be more rewarding than the actual acquisition.

 

[usctrojans31]

Almost all watches have become insanely overpriced in the last 10+ years. As for your description : 95% of the watch at 65% of the price, yes and no. Sure JLCs are often less expensive than their VC siblings. The difference is VCs are more collectible, and if you ever tire of one and want to sell or trade it you can. JLCs are lovely watches, and some day I'd like to pick up an ultra thin Reverso, but I don't think I'd ever spend more than $10K on a JLC. A friend has a stunning limited edition platinum JLC, MSRP was $28,000 and he bought it brand new from an AD for $20K in 2004 or 2005. Fast forward to 2010, he decides he doesn't wear it much, and wants to sell it for something else, maybe not even a watch. He brought it to a few high end watch places, no one wanted it, and it was in nearly perfect condition. A few places said, if it were a Patek, AP, VC, AL&S, Rolex or Cartier we'd buy it, but we won't purchase JLCs, GPs, etc. there just isn't a good market for them particularly their high end pieces.

So you might save when you buy a JLC, but you may have a tough time selling it if you tire of it or want something else, or you may take a bath on it. Obviously, people should buy what they like and not be focused purely on resale, but if you are someone who is fickle when it comes to watches, JLC may not be a good brand to purchase.

Great reply! I know that JLC has resale value in some markets and next to zero in others, so there is very much a local consideration. I tend to ignore resale value as product criteria as my conditions of buying are about making an emotional connection.

 

[Dino944]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, guys. I suppose it was a bit harsh to write "I hate" when referring to the sides of the VC, but I never expected it when I was researching the watch online. I guess it was also more obvious, since I was at an JLC AD just a few moments earlier and looked at the True Second in gold just for fun. It was there that it struck me that the case with angled edges and bezels seemed appropriate in steel, but somehow in gold it didn't work, at least for me.

I found a better shot of the sides of the VC (again not my pic), hopefully illustrating my point:

I guess I would have preferred a "meatier" lug, instead of them cutting it back on the underside. I wasn't wearing a heavy sport watch when I tried the piece on, so I don't think there was any "weight bias" as I handled it.

I find myself going back and forth on Lange. For a very long time I wanted an 1815 ab/auf. Then I read that the winding isn't as smooth as on the small-seconds version, so I started considering that one instead. I also considered the automatic version, since it has such a great movement. Now I am considering other pieces, including an FPJ, which brings me to my current dilemma (if buying such watches could ever be considered one!)...

Anyways, I'm still tire-kicking at this point - in some ways I find the search to be more rewarding than the actual acquisition.

In that photo, I can see what you are referring to about the "Faceted" case. I think the its really more about them integrating an interesting twist with the lug design into the case. Vacheron is well known for giving watches interesting lug designs. They've done tear drops, stepped lugs, angled, square lugs, and all sorts of variations in addition to more classic lugs. I think the lugs on the Traditionelle are rather "Meaty" especially when looking down on their tops surfaces. However, you have to love the design, and if it doesn't speak to you in person, then maybe its not the right watch for you. I think its rather common to like a watch in photos, see it in person and find its just not quite what you are looking for.

I used to be a much bigger fan of VC, but many of their current designs just are not my taste. I find the Contemporaine too bland, the lugs are too short, and in some of its larger sizes the proportions are so wide and flat that it looks like pancake strapped to my wrist. For me the Traditionelle and the Historiques American 1921 are the only time only watches from VCs collection that interest me.

If this is your first gold dress watch, take your time and look at all your options. You shouldn't feel you are settling in terms of design, winding feel, or anything else. When you try on the right piece, you will know. Good luck with whatever you decide. Cheers!

 

[BLAUGRANA]

I like JLC just fine, but whether it's just brand snobbery affecting me or a real difference, I don't see them as that close. The JLCs that draw me are those with a quirk - the Reverso is unique, for example. But their dress watches I find a little bland. I like the TheWAT rock star MUT Moon just fine, but way more with the dark dial for some character.

Lange, on the other hand, makes me weak at the knees. To get the same price as a discounted Patrimony, you'd have to go for the Saxonia Thin. A bit more expensive are the 1815s (used ones can be surprisingly cheap, especially if the smaller 36mm version suits), or the standard Saxonia with its small seconds. But if you didn't like the steep case sides on the Traditionelle, you might fine only the Sax Thin is dainty enough. The 1815 is a right little lump - I love it, but each to his own. However, if I were a big boy baller, a used Richard Lange would be on my wrist. It's relatively large for a dress watch but so subtle, and yet oozes that deliberate Glashuette functionality and attention to detail.

Oof! You chopped me up! I wasn't suggesting JLC as an alternative but rather just commenting that I think to Dino's point you have to be careful buying a JLC if you're worried about resale but that from what I can tell there are some exceptions like that rose gold Geophysic 1958.

Lange is making me weak at the knees at the moment. I too love the Richard Lange, but they need to get it down to 38.5mm.

Curious to those who have or have tried on a Saxonia (I have but I forget), does the dial make it wear bigger? For example does the 37mm Saxonia wear more like a 38.5 or 39mm? Or better yet does the 35mm wear more like a 37mm? I get the impression it might.