The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Keith T]

You can really "see" the RO and the Nautilus in that vintage Ingy. Nice.

 

[TheTukker]



My watch of the day.....IWC, pity they discontinued this model. It's one of the coolest ingenuir out there originally designed by Gerald Genta

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I like the Ingenieur series from Genta and some of the later revised versions too.  Yours is far more angular than the Ingenieur SL that was designed by Genta.  
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I actually like Best4Best's ingenieur better, but it doesn't get the best reviews. @Best4Best: have you had any of those issues?

 

[Best4Best]

I have had my IWC for little over 2 years without any issues


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steel28]

BLNR is still my favorite after one year. Love it every minute.

 

[tricky]

@steel28 only because your monster hasn't landed

The BLNR is a beauty though. Still feel the same about my Explorer 1 and SubC LV. Never get tired of them.

 

[Cleav]

looks good @Steel28

 

[Belligero]



@steel28 only because your monster hasn't landed

The BLNR is a beauty though. Still feel the same about my Explorer 1 and SubC LV. Never get tired of them.

I'm starting to get that impression about this one; it's barely been off the wrist since it came back from service except for last weekend's house move:

The newer version hardly gets worn now. Funny how a few small details make all the difference.

 

[Dino944]

I'm starting to get that impression about this one; it's barely been off the wrist since it came back from service except for last weekend's house move:

The newer version hardly gets worn now. Funny how a few small details make all the difference.

The newer version is a great watch and technically is far superior...but if I could only keep one, I'd keep the 16520. Love that watch!

 

[ShawnBC]

^^ I love the white-faced Daytona! Especially the non-ceramic!

 

[ericgereghty]

It's a sexy piece, to be sure.

 

[Thin White Duke]



^^ I love the white-faced Daytona! Especially the non-ceramic!

Me too - my next and hopefully last big watch spend.

Belligerent if you have a 116520 for sale make me an offer I can't refuse!

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

So I've become obsessed with ochs und junior watches. Sure, it's an ETA-based watch for $7K+, but they're just so cool and different from anything else out there. Fully customizable as well. Anyone handle one of these watches in the metal? What were your impressions?

 

[BLAUGRANA]

Limited editions generate additional revenue, and can ignite some interest in a model that collectors already have (but to not yet own "this version") but I don't think they lead to true growth for most companies.

Yes, perhaps the companies I referenced were too specific, or not brands you would apply your theory to. However, I think many companies can't really afford to be more exclusive . Brands like Zenith, Piaget, GP, etc are hardly well known. If they become more exclusive they possibly run the risk of becoming so obscure as to not sell enough units to be profitable. Companies like IWC, Omega and JLC, make great products, but I'm not sure they can afford to cut production as they are dependent on being large volume companies. In addition, making limited editions or making fewer Pilot watches, Seamasters, and Reverso's isn't necessarily going to make a company more exclusive and therefore allow them to charge retail and get it. JLC has made some great limited editions, but they have a track record whereby anything above the $25K price range (even limited editions), end up being very difficult for dealers/boutiques to move and they end up selling at big discounts or going to grays and selling there at big discounts.

Yes, as you point out there are people who will pay closer to full retail for limited editions...but last years numbers may be a wake up call to Swiss companies that they need to make serious changes and that they can't simply depend on consumers loving limited editions enough and paying near retail to make up for lagging sales. You seem to really like limited editions, and yet you seem rather price conscious with your purchases. That suggests there are consumers who may want a limited edition very badly, but plenty will wait and search for avenues that will allow them to avoid paying near full retail at ADs/Boutiques...whether it means going through grays or pre-owned.

Limited production or limited editions don't necessarily elevate a brand and make it more desirable. It might garner additional interest in a specific model. If you were going to buy a Speedmaster and there is a limited version, then why not get the limited version if you like it. However, IMHO the brand is the same...making a limited model or lower production numbers doesn't put it on par with say Patek. Granted I'm only one person, but if they limited production on the Seamaster series, it would mean nothing to me as I really only am interested in their Speedy Pro. In addition, if limiting production across the board led to them not negotiating on price or drove prices upward...I'd probably then consider other brands that may be considered finer watches. So that doesn't necessarily work to their benefit.

Actually, in terns of AP...which Foo already discussed, I actually find myself turned off by their limited editions. There simply are too many and they don't seem more special simply by being limited editions. Hence, I chose what many would consider a classic RO, the 15202. Its not a limited edition and they have been in production for years. As you mentioned, I'm just one person. In addition, so far AP has done well selling limited editions...but I don't think limited edition after limited edition can truly be sustained without people eventually saying WTF...I already have it in 2 or 3 colors...perhaps its time for something different.

The $3-4K could be a good range for some brands...as more consumers can afford to spend 3-4K rather than $5-10K or more. However, it seems many brands have left that range (particularly the under 5 range some time ago). The only big name brand that recently went back to offering something for that amount was Cartier with their Tank Solo XL auto. It will be interesting to see if that is successful for them or if it is a wasted effort and they eventually nix it and focus on battling with Rolex, IWC, Omega in the $6K and over.

I'm not very good with Memes, but all the limited editions from various watch brands starts to remind me of those "Yo Dawg" memes..."You Dawg, I heard you like limited edition watches, so we made a limited edition, of limited edition, of a limited production model, from a company with very limited production numbers...so you can wear a limited edition of a limited edition, when you wear a limited edition."

Cheers!

I'm having trouble with your reply because again you seem to be attributing something to what I posted that just isn't there, and that's after I have already clarified some points. I'm simply saying that a strategy, which would be part of an overall strategy, that makes sense would be to in part limit production. I'm not saying watchmakers should make more limited editions or limit every edition, but I'd say that generally it's pretty clear that supply is greater than demand and that generally there is discounting going on in part as result. Limiting production would likely lead to them realizing greater margins as I noted earlier.

While I agree that economies of scale might be an issue for some watchmakers, I already addressed that in my last post. Of course they'd have to find the sweet spot which might take some time, but I'd say it's pretty clear that what they're doing in terms of production already isn't working, especially if they're moving pieces to grey dealers.

I agree that certain limited editions, especially like the JLCs you referenced that are over $25k, already don't necessarily sell. However I wasn't referring specifically to those. In fact I'd say that watches over $10k don't seem to sell that well either.

I like the watches that I like, whether they're limited editions or not. I certainly prefer them as I think anyone would in terms of having something that was produced in lower numbers, but that hardly influences my decision to buy. Take for example my Reverso 1931. I nearly went for the "standard" edition, but in the end decided I preferred the limited edition. As for my being price sensitive, I am a very competitive and savvy shopper and so I get discounts on almost everything I buy. However as regards watches I'm price sensitive more so because for the most part my means force me to be. Still with my purchases thus far I've paid close enough to full retail as I had little choice considering the availability of the pieces, and that was in the grey market. In fact in the case of my Reverso I'm under the impression that I paid at least full retail and likely more. Anyway, I think that every limited edition that has thus far interested me, whether I own it not, has been very well done.

I wasn't saying that limited editions put a piece on par with Patek. I also wasn't saying that being a limited edition elevates a watch or brand. In fact I specifically said that if the piece was must have, and that needs to come first and also suggests it's not just about being limited in production, that the more limited it is the likely they'd realist better margins. Of course you run the risk of missing out on sales if you make it too limited, but that's a mistake that I'm sure they'd be more comfortable with than overproducing a piece and selling at a bigger discount while also being left with excess inventory.

I also didn't refer to more limited editions of pieces we already have. I agree that at some point people generally will say something like "I already have three Speedmasters." I'm not saying make more of those models. I was referring in part to producing new models that are limited editions.

Brands can go back to that price range though. Of course there are ways of doing that and they'd have to be very careful in how they do it, but it could work. Either way I, again, wasn't referring to specific brands but to the industry in general. Those brands that may not want to enter that range for multiple reasons could still produce watches that are cheaper than what they already produce. As has been noted in this thread and I think by yourself, prices have increased steadily over the years and there's room for some regression.

Not sure what you're really trying to say and why you're doing down the meme road, but again I never offered limited editions and limiting production as the only answer. However I'd say it's an obvious approach that should be considering as part of an overall strategy. I'd also add that there are plenty of limited editions that have been well done and that are great watches because of what they are and not at all because they're limited.

 

[scottcw]



So I've become obsessed with ochs und junior watches. Sure, it's an ETA-based watch for $7K+, but they're just so cool and different from anything else out there. Fully customizable as well. Anyone handle one of these watches in the metal? What were your impressions?

Why, yes. Love my annual calendar. I might eventually change the dial color, but an elegantly understated watch. Some might find it a bit on the thick side, but I have a vintage DJ for dressier occasions.

The ETA base does not bother me given the amount of ingenuity in reducing an annual calendar to 5 gears. I see they just introduced a perpetual calendar. Want.

 

[SteveH35]

So I've become obsessed with ochs und junior watches. Sure, it's an ETA-based watch for $7K+, but they're just so cool and different from anything else out there. Fully customizable as well. Anyone handle one of these watches in the metal? What were your impressions?

For the Ochs and Junior -- they are great watches. The watch wears nicely, the design is very good. I found it a bit tricky to read the date, but perhaps I never wore it enough to really figure out the dots well. I'm personally not a huge fan of calendar watches unless I'm going to wear it almost every day, so that would be my other consideration with that piece. But if you want a full calendar and don't need it to be the most instantly legible, then it is a very cool complication and well made piece. The guys involved and the ethos of the company is pretty much exactly what anyone would want from a boutique brand. It's a great company to support.