The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[LA Guy]

Well if he has handled my 80% cheaper 100 piece LE blue Stowa flieger he wouldn't be recommending the overly thick and heavy unimaginative soft iron IWC Mark Petit 18 that uses the same level Sellita rebranded movement. But then perhaps the IWC was mentioned over the Stowa to conform with this thread's subject regardless of its poor value so he was correct on that end. The moral of my story is to be able to recommend uncommon things you also need prior experience seeing them first hand. Unless reading online of actual owners experiences is your thing.

It's not that hard to have "handled the real thing." In New York, you can see pretty much every brand on a single stretch. In Florence, you can see most watch brands on a single bridge, and the most of the rest right over the river. That's not even including the umpteenth vintage dealers. Why must you assume such a tone with such a wide audience?

 

[bdavro23]

The moral of the dino stories unsurprisingly is: 'Kids, don't try to be different or what happened to my friend will absolutely happen to you. You Will be punished by horological gods of conformity and you Will learn your lesson the hard way.'

Are you sure that's the moral of that story?

 

[patrick_b]

The moral of the @Medwed story:

I am the smartest man in any room and I’m happy to let you know it. Seems a sad way to go through life.

 

[Dino944]

Well if he has handled my 80% cheaper 100 piece LE blue Stowa flieger he wouldn't be recommending the overly thick and heavy unimaginative soft iron IWC Mark Petit 18 that uses the same level Sellita rebranded movement. But then perhaps the IWC was mentioned over the Stowa to conform with this thread's subject regardless of its poor value so he was correct on that end. The moral of my story is to be able to recommend uncommon things you also need prior experience seeing them first hand. Unless reading online of actual owners experiences is your thing.

I didn't recommend an IWC Mark Petit 18. That being said, yes, I did recommend an IWC, a Rolex, and a Cartier, as they fit within the OP's friend's budget. I have handled a Stowa Flieger, a friend has one of those. I can't say the Stowa did anything for me. However, as the OP's friend wanted a "Recognizable brand"...I doubt your Stowa would not have cut it, as the OP's friend didn't think Tudor had enough brand recognition (IIRC).

I'm not sure why you constantly think people haven't handled a Stowa, a Seiko, or Grand Seiko, etc. These aren't minute repeaters or grand complications that maybe only a handful of the high end dealers in the US will have. You are speaking of very accessible watches. Just because some of us don't fall in love with them them or have much interest in owning them doesn't mean we haven't handled them. As someone who likes chronographs, I was particularly keen to see the GS chronograph when a dealer in the area became an AD for them a few years ago. It was nice, but I didn't feel like it was something I needed to own. It was a bit generic looking, bracelet looked like it was taken off of an Omega Speedy Pro, and the pushers seemed to jut out way too far.

You talk about recommending uncommon things. However, is a Stowa really uncommon? It's certainly in a relatively affordable price range. So is it truly uncommon, or is it just uncommon to see them recommended here on a forum that started out being called the "Watch P0rn thread"... and is now "The Watch Appreciation Thread (Rolex, Patek, AP, JLC, etc)." When someone says, they have a friend with a 4,000 pound budget to spend on a watch, I don't see people suggesting a Swatch watch. Does that mean a Swatch is uncommon, or just an uncommon recommendation here? Other brands that are not commonly recommended here are Fortis, Rado, Shinola, and Hamilton etc...does that mean they are uncommon and should be recommended? Perhaps they are all good watches within certain price ranges...but they just don't garner much interest on a forum that largely started out with a focus on higher end brands.

Here is one example of my LE by Seiko. Polished Titanium case with black enamel dial. Fit and finish is Seiko superb.

View attachment 1096526

Not bad, but looks like ideas taken from other companies. It looks like what I imagine a watch looks like if the design team was asked to make an Aquanaut case and give it the round bezel from a Panerai.

 

[Medwed]

The moral of the @Medwed story:

I am the smartest man in any room and I’m happy to let you know it. Seems a sad way to go through life.

We all have our prism through which reality is perceived, but in this case all you have to do is read words. No need to imagine the man behind the words as it is futile exercise.

 

[am55]

No maybe the moral is, feel free and choose are rarer more exotic piece, with questionable reliability. Just be prepared for it to spend more time going back and forth to the service shop. Its like a buddy of mine that bought a new Maserati Quattroporte GTS in 2008, in its first year of ownership it spent 3-4 months at the dealer for warranty work. He had owned cars from other companies with better reputations for reliability such as Audi, BMW and Porsche...but he wanted something different. He admits the car has its flaws, and there are fewer service shops when issues arise than if he bought something German (making service less convenient), and there are fewer techs with experience working on these cars, but he does enjoy owning it. He just probably couldn't own it, if this was his only car to get to and from work.

For all of your, be different, be fun...I don't think any of us have seen any of your watches. Where are all these fun, different, exciting watches?

I think your Maserati example is perfect actually. In an office of Porsche 911s (the car equivalent of the sub), to me a Maserati isn't sufficiently "different" (aesthetically) in that everybody also knows that brand and it is available everywhere. In fact it is very common in Singapore as it is the cheapest "premium" sports car factoring in tax etc. (and the reputation for issues is also there), and you see a lot in other megacities like London for presumably the same reason.

My point is that if one wants to be different, there are many more options than a Maserati: you could go your way with a perfectly restored Dino, although the time and expense probably disqualify it for non fanatics; you could get a Morgan or a Wiesmann, rare cars which are relatively reliable (Morgan uses BMW engines) and completely insane conceptually (guaranteed that a number of car guys just winced - but I vaguely remember that the President of the Paris automobile club is a Morgan fellow); you could try one of the budget McLarens for not much more. These are "different" and in my mind at least hold their own to a 911 (I am assuming said car buyer has a safe boring choice for the snowstorm days). But you later explained why UN: your friend wanted a brand that was well known amongst the general public (I guess McLaren counts). And in a way that is what I was referring to with "airport brands" - if I can find it in airport duty free all around the world it is not "different" to me (and Seiko is now in that bag since you can now get a lot of formerly JDM watches in large airports).

Incidentally the Rolex selection at major airports is still (IMHO) relatively limited; e.g. aforementioned SIN has a smaller selection of olive dial watches than the Sentosa location which sits under a couple 5* hotels on a man made island half an hour from the centre of town. I was surprised to find Stowa distributed in various malls, as there was a time when the brand was rare and needed to be ordered on the internet.

@LA Guy I think it fair to say that a large number of members are unlikely to have access to a Florence or New York nearby and so handling even something like the AP RO can be challenging once you step out of capital cities. Hence watch meetups etc.

 

[am55]

The only reason why my AD stopped carrying them is because they're only selling in Russia and China. But the ones that got bought by local clients never went back for service or warranty claim yet. This is at least the news back in 2016. Having said that some of the models are beautiful and I wouldn't mind wearing them if the size is small enough though I'd probably get a Parmigiani first. Still looking for this elusive meteorite.


View attachment 1096484

I could never understand the aesthetics of the Parmigiani which many of my colleagues wore back in Switzerland. I think it's a combination of the large size, and hands that more properly belong to a lower end sports watch. If there are Parmigiani fans here (Riva, are you one?) I would love to hear more about why you like it, as it is the kind of house I want to learn to appreciate at least.

 

[am55]

While damascus nowadays can be folded in perfect repeating pattern, each mammoth tooth is unique

View attachment 1096470

"There is no Dutchman who can make a keris, Gus. None are or ever will be able to make one. Open it and you'll see the thumbprints of the craftsman sage who made it." [...] "Hush! You're indeed no longer of Java. Do you equate this with a kitchen knife?" [...] Don't go too far with your non-Javaneseness. [...] Don't be so disrespectful. You too could not make the likes of this. Respect those who can do more than you. Later you can look in the mirror. When you have slipped the keris onto your waist, you will change. You will look more like your ancestors. You will be closer to your origins."

 

[LA Guy]

So, next on my list, since my "non-automatic, can easily get serviced, and can even just swap out the movement if needed)" slot is filled with the Speedy, is a 38mm Pasha with a protective grid. Maybe Valentine's Day, if I'm to convince my wife that I'm not nuts, and especially since I also just picked up a bunch of cashmere for her a heavy leather for me. But, one brand that looks very... Italian? to me is de Grisogono. I have no idea what the innards are like, but it seems to me that a gold Numero Uno is a good FU watch, which would be fun to wear to Charity Balls/Dinners/Auctions or other functions full of obnoxious people.

 

[LA Guy]

"There is no Dutchman who can make a keris, Gus. None are or ever will be able to make one. Open it and you'll see the thumbprints of the craftsman sage who made it." [...] "Hush! You're indeed no longer of Java. Do you equate this with a kitchen knife?" [...] Don't go too far with your non-Javaneseness. [...] Don't be so disrespectful. You too could not make the likes of this. Respect those who can do more than you. Later you can look in the mirror. When you have slipped the keris onto your waist, you will change. You will look more like your ancestors. You will be closer to your origins."

I would guess that 99% of non-Malays would equate a keris/kris with the sword they get in Runequest.

 

[LA Guy]

@LA Guy I think it fair to say that a large number of members are unlikely to have access to a Florence or New York nearby and so handling even something like the AP RO can be challenging once you step out of capital cities. Hence watch meetups etc.

That's fair.

Incidentally, one of the new but older guys at our gym drives a 911, (along with the usual young guns and old hands we have a number of older hobbyists who have always dreamed of training, but never had the chance until usually a midlife crisis hits) which is probably one of the more improbably and impractical vehicles on the backroads of Idaho. There are a few inches of snow right now, and I imagine that a big bump would take the transmission straight off. But the thing seems to make himself happy. We all have mile markers in our lives, and I guess that his was making enough money to have a 911, something that feels alien to me, but is obvious very special to him.

 

[clee1982]

how old is the 911, thought modern era 911 AWD (996 and on?) are good enough everyday drive car for winter if you put the right tire on it

 

[am55]

I would guess that 99% of non-Malays would equate a keris/kris with the sword they get in Runequest.

Riva is not pribumi and I guarantee you he knows very well what I'm talking about

That's fair.

Incidentally, one of the new but older guys at our gym drives a 911, (along with the usual young guns and old hands we have a number of older hobbyists who have always dreamed of training, but never had the chance until usually a midlife crisis hits) which is probably one of the more improbably and impractical vehicles on the backroads of Idaho. There are a few inches of snow right now, and I imagine that a big bump would take the transmission straight off. But the thing seems to make himself happy. We all have mile markers in our lives, and I guess that his was making enough money to have a 911, something that feels alien to me, but is obvious very special to him.

The 911-Sub combo is the most common I've seen in cars/watches of that price range and class. I think both are very solid options if you do not want to spend months doing research, and even if you do, which is why they rose to the top of their respective verticals in statistical terms at least. There's a 911 in the family and the thing is surprisingly reliable and well built - they are designed to be daily drivers. OTOH my neighbour (back in the snowy mountainous days) had a 1980s Targa and that is a completely different philosophy of car... one, if I may dare, that is closer to the wood frame, nothing added Morgan driving experience/insanity.

I was having drinks with a friend who drives a number of 1950s/60s sports cars and he was late. I asked him what happened and he said it rained so he took public transport instead. He doesn't own a "daily driver". Now that is the spirit

 

[Dino944]

how old is the 911, thought modern era 911 AWD (996 and on?) are good enough everyday drive car for winter if you put the right tire on it

Not all 911s are AWD, the Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, and the Turbo & TurboS (from the 993 to now have AWD). You can get winter tires for them, but all of the cars are low to the ground, and ground clearance can be an issue in serious snow storms. A friend of mine has to remove the rubber lip from his Turbo's front spoiler to gain a bit of ground clearance at the front and even then he has cracked the plastic front air damn more than once. If there are several inches of snow, he usually drives his SUV.

 

[LA Guy]

how old is the 911, thought modern era 911 AWD (996 and on?) are good enough everyday drive car for winter if you put the right tire on it

Late model - last few years or so? I know zero about cars, but he bought it new.