The unofficial Drake's London Appreciation Thread

[clemente21]

Ah, the romance of Brexit.

The shirts are made in a factory in Shard Somerset. The workers are British and treated well, and have even had a spotlight on the brands instagram recently. In contemporary menswear we all like to salivate over and espouse these ideas of 'heritage', 'artisanal', 'vintage' and 'traditional' yet alot of this so called heritage gear ends up being made in far off lands. Theres a debate to be had about the quality of Chinese factories, its definitely not as clear cut like it was in the past. But this is more about the connection and belonging that domestic production brings to a brand. Whats more British than a Tattersall shirt that is made in a British factory by British workers? I think Drakes captures that spirit of a bygone era when companies would specifically source production in a way that was in keeping with the history of the product. Scottish knitwear and tweeds, British shirting, Italian tailoring etc. For the average consumer, a shirt is a shirt is a shirt, no matter where its made. But for those who dare to romance, yes where it is made, its origin, is important.

 

[Loathing]

Gotcha -- so just to unpack that a little more, what does "Made in England" connote here? i.e. is that valuable because it means something about how the garment is manufactured, or how the workers are treated, or something else?

I feel like you’re asking questions you know the answer to. Obviously wages and rents are higher and working conditions better in England/France/Italy than China/wherever. And that’s obviously part of the price.

Quality also tends to be higher (although not necessarily) in places with long traditions of quality products because such products are a function of people putting effort into them over decades, plus having a developed market of discerning customers nearby.

But all of that is largely irrelevant. Pick up a Drake’s shirt: if the details don’t speak to you, don’t buy it — no one on the internet can (or should) persuade you otherwise.

 

[yungchomsky]

I feel like you’re asking questions you know the answer to. Obviously wages and rents are higher and working conditions better in England/France/Italy than China/wherever. And that’s obviously part of the price.

Quality also tends to be higher (although not necessarily) in places with long traditions of quality products because such products are a function of people putting effort into them over decades, plus having a developed market of discerning customers nearby.

But all of that is largely irrelevant. Pick up a Drake’s shirt: if the details don’t speak to you, don’t buy it — no one on the internet can (or should) persuade you otherwise.

I'm not trying to be in bad faith -- I'm familiar with different costs of living in different parts of the world, but IMO it's not obvious that the worker who makes shirts Drake's will sell for $265 is less exploited than the one who makes shirts that Spier and Mackay will sell for $60. I don't think working conditions are universally good in the UK or universally bad in China, for example. And I have no idea how much of the price difference is accounted for by labor costs. And I wasn't sure the extent to which other folks who were buying this stuff looked at it as paying a premium for more ethical products.

Good info on this kind of thing is obviously hard to come by, but I figured somebody here might have some insight. Some brands seem to be leaning into "ethical/sustainable manufacturing" as kind of an image these days -- e.g. I noticed this started appearing on SuitSupply's product pages not too long ago:

Who knows how that plays out in practice, but at least there's a site you can go to that lays out what it's supposed to mean. Drake's seems to be skirting into similar territory with instagram posts like this one, but with them it seems to be more about selling the brand story of "tradition" and "heritage" than ethical/sustainable manufacturing.

 

[WilYa]

I'm not trying to be in bad faith -- I'm familiar with different costs of living in different parts of the world, but IMO it's not obvious that the worker who makes shirts Drake's will sell for $265 is less exploited than the one who makes shirts that Spier and Mackay will sell for $60. I don't think working conditions are universally good in the UK or universally bad in China, for example. And I have no idea how much of the price difference is accounted for by labor costs. And I wasn't sure the extent to which other folks who were buying this stuff looked at it as paying a premium for more ethical products.

Good info on this kind of thing is obviously hard to come by, but I figured somebody here might have some insight. Some brands seem to be leaning into "ethical/sustainable manufacturing" as kind of an image these days -- e.g. I noticed this started appearing on SuitSupply's product pages not too long ago:

View attachment 1152932

Who knows how that plays out in practice, but at least there's a site you can go to that lays out what it's supposed to mean. Drake's seems to be skirting into similar territory with instagram posts like this one, but with them it seems to be more about selling the brand story of "tradition" and "heritage" than ethical/sustainable manufacturing.

I believe Drakes shirts have not only higher costs but higher mark-up factors as well.
M&S used to sell 'Drakes' shirts at £99 RRP but oftentimes at 50% off.

 

[Quesjac]

And, to repeat the cycle this conversation tends to take, you are 'paying' for the design/curation/vision of the company, which isn't a fixed cost per shirt but which nevertheless needs to be paid in order for a company like Drake's to function.

 

[dieworkwear]

Drake's is a better value than most when you plug their fundamentals into the Algorithm of Fashion Value.

((raw material cost + accounts receivable - assets) x (joy you get from wearing said clothing x number of handstiches))/ (depreciation of sustainable value + made in UK)^ net margin of classicness

 

[EUtroll]

Fully agree, I've searched for a tweed jacket with patch pockets, etc. but beyond Drake's I haven't been able to find anything similar. MTM or Drake's? Then not a bad price at all. Just a shame that their model doesn't fit me...

 

[espen]

Also agreed on the above, especially with regards to the curation and presentation of the clothing they sell. While a good chunk of it will remain something I aspire to own, I derive a great deal of inspiration from the seasonal look-books and editorial. So when I do purchase a tie or two at full retail, I feel like I'm participating in the look, rather than just feeling overwhelmed I'll never be at that level because of the sticker price of their tweeds.

 

[malefe]

Fully agree, I've searched for a tweed jacket with patch pockets, etc. but beyond Drake's I haven't been able to find anything similar. MTM or Drake's? Then not a bad price at all. Just a shame that their model doesn't fit me...

Spier m'kay

 

[cbusguy]

i think drake's is worth it, but it's all subjective. you're not just paying for the clothes. it's also the value of the brand, the styling, the vision, the whatever

drake's is another take on what inspired Ralph Lauren with polo. i like the look a lot-- especially the more casual clothes. you can copy the same look if you spend some time looking. columbiaknit for a rugby. astorflex for shoes. brooks brothers or kamakura for the collar roll. the suiting is a little harder to replicate

i got this jacket in the mail yesterday and i love it. polo has made this same tweed jacket. but i don't know if any of them have this styling or fit. i'm going to be looking for a summer version next. i like drake's that much

 

[dieworkwear]

thats a really nice silhouette

 

[othertravel]

i think drake's is worth it, but it's all subjective. you're not just paying for the clothes. it's also the value of the brand, the styling, the vision, the whatever

drake's is another take on what inspired Ralph Lauren with polo. i like the look a lot-- especially the more casual clothes. you can copy the same look if you spend some time looking. columbiaknit for a rugby. astorflex for shoes. brooks brothers or kamakura for the collar roll. the suiting is a little harder to replicate

i got this jacket in the mail yesterday and i love it. polo has made this same tweed jacket. but i don't know if any of them have this styling or fit. i'm going to be looking for a summer version next. i like drake's that much

View attachment 1153833

Similar to old Polo, which was great. You can still find NOS floating around eBay.

 

[crazn]

M&S is very mass market, which means it has economies of scale. Drake may make 1000 shirts whereas m&s might make 10000 or more? That will drive the price down even if for the same quality but the only way to know if the m&s shirt is the exact same level as the drake’s shirt is to deconstruct the entire shirt from both the house label and m&s. Then you will know if there is more value in the drake’s one then m&s. Also like some folks mentioned, value is in the eye of the the beholder. Is more hand stitching or luxurious fabric valuable to you? It could be more inconsistent than machine sewn or the fabric may be more fragile and less hardwearing. If you like the brand and are willing to pay for the curation and advertising go for drake’s if you like to not pay for supposedly superior branding and a certain class status signalling then look for drake’s factory’s white label product ie M&s ( even though I’m sure you are also paying for m&s advertising). It really boils down to what is important to you.

 

[Quesjac]

M&S is very mass market, which means it has economies of scale. Drake may make 1000 shirts whereas m&s might make 10000 or more? That will drive the price down even if for the same quality but the only way to know if the m&s shirt is the exact same level as the drake’s shirt is to deconstruct the entire shirt from both the house label and m&s. Then you will know if there is more value in the drake’s one then m&s. Also like some folks mentioned, value is in the eye of the the beholder. Is more hand stitching or luxurious fabric valuable to you? It could be more inconsistent than machine sewn or the fabric may be more fragile and less hardwearing. If you like the brand and are willing to pay for the curation and advertising go for drake’s if you like to not pay for supposedly superior branding and a certain class status signalling then look for drake’s factory’s white label product ie M&s ( even though I’m sure you are also paying for m&s advertising). It really boils down to what is important to you.

I think the British made shirts were a brief experiment for M&S. There was a whole range of nice things, handmade Cheshire Clothing suits, etc., but from what I can tell they didn't sell. A great virtue of Drake's and the like is not just the product but that they can create appreciation for the product beyond the kind of forum people who love to research this stuff. And this does trickle down a bit I think --- M&S shirts are a heck of a lot better than they used to be, even if the highest tier they can sell is 3 for £90.

 

[crazn]

I think the British made shirts were a brief experiment for M&S. There was a whole range of nice things, handmade Cheshire Clothing suits, etc., but from what I can tell they didn't sell. A great virtue of Drake's and the like is not just the product but that they can create appreciation for the product beyond the kind of forum people who love to research this stuff. And this does trickle down a bit I think --- M&S shirts are a heck of a lot better than they used to be, even if the highest tier they can sell is 3 for £90.

They had a made in Italy range before the made in Britain one. I’m not sure how that did but it lasted more Seasons if I’m not wrong. But I do recall seeing both and I frankly liked the Italian range a lot more.