The Ultimate Toronto Thread

[mebiuspower]

Why is it that so few good tailors visit Toronto compared to NYC, SF, LA, other parts of the US? Presumably there must not be sufficient interest among folks in the city, but is that because of local culture, or is it because the CAD is so weak it costs too much to commission anything?

Sounds like you don't go out much.

 

[Pomegranates]

Why is it that so few good tailors visit Toronto compared to NYC, SF, LA, other parts of the US? Presumably there must not be sufficient interest among folks in the city, but is that because of local culture, or is it because the CAD is so weak it costs too much to commission anything?

I'd suggest a few reasons but there are probably others:

1. Money. The US is the largest economy in the world. There is a large market of clients with money.

2. Population. The population of the cities mentioned are much larger than what's available in Canada. If anything Canada would have MTV, but in the US the surrounding areas are quite large which means clients from other parts of the US might be willing to travel domesticallu for a Savile Row tailor.

3. History. There is a long history of UK tailors traveling to the US. This is important to note because this business depends on sustainable customers to justify repeat trips and be successful. Not to mention NYC has been a large city for a long time now. Toronto, large for Canada but not so much globally.

Personally, I've come to terms with not having access to Savile Row tailors and instead just started looking for what's in Canada. There are a fair amount around but it's hard to hear about them. Savile Row, for example is very well publicized. Plus, there are benefits of access, speed to get your garment, price, and knowing your loonie supports a local economy.

 

[Spaghettimatt]

Sounds like you don't go out much.

I assume this snarky is about tailoring being rare in the city but the same is true of NYC, SF, and LA these days (though slightly less so w/r/t NYC). Maybe you've never ventured outside of Ontario though.

 

[Spaghettimatt]

I'd suggest a few reasons but there are probably others:

1. Money. The US is the largest economy in the world. There is a large market of clients with money.

2. Population. The population of the cities mentioned are much larger than what's available in Canada. If anything Canada would have MTV, but in the US the surrounding areas are quite large which means clients from other parts of the US might be willing to travel domesticallu for a Savile Row tailor.

3. History. There is a long history of UK tailors traveling to the US. This is important to note because this business depends on sustainable customers to justify repeat trips and be successful. Not to mention NYC has been a large city for a long time now. Toronto, large for Canada but not so much globally.

Personally, I've come to terms with not having access to Savile Row tailors and instead just started looking for what's in Canada. There are a fair amount around but it's hard to hear about them. Savile Row, for example is very well publicized. Plus, there are benefits of access, speed to get your garment, price, and knowing your loonie supports a local economy.

Thanks. Good answer.

And don't get me wrong—I'm happy we have a great local option now through @induere_to and I'm excited to establish a long-term relationship with him and his crew. Very happy to support local artisans.

 

[mebiuspower]

I'd suggest a few reasons but there are probably others:

1. Money. The US is the largest economy in the world. There is a large market of clients with money.

2. Population. The population of the cities mentioned are much larger than what's available in Canada. If anything Canada would have MTV, but in the US the surrounding areas are quite large which means clients from other parts of the US might be willing to travel domesticallu for a Savile Row tailor.

3. History. There is a long history of UK tailors traveling to the US. This is important to note because this business depends on sustainable customers to justify repeat trips and be successful. Not to mention NYC has been a large city for a long time now. Toronto, large for Canada but not so much globally.

Personally, I've come to terms with not having access to Savile Row tailors and instead just started looking for what's in Canada. There are a fair amount around but it's hard to hear about them. Savile Row, for example is very well publicized. Plus, there are benefits of access, speed to get your garment, price, and knowing your loonie supports a local economy.

Lack of education is a huge part. People in Toronto have money (look at how many G-Wagens and AMGs are on the street) but 99% of them don't spend money on tailored clothing.

There's literally guys that would walk into Harry Rosen Bloor 3rd floor and asks "What is the most expensive dress shirt you got, I have a wedding I'm going to" and the SA will just hand them 5 $700 100Hands dress shirts.

 

[Jamesbond1]

???

Need more info

THE HONG KONG BAOTOU TAILORS AND FABRIC SHOPS FOR CMT THREAD

tons of info on this tread. As for recommending a tailor I am not going to! You have to go through the process to get your sized dialed in and that requires patience in particular when you are dealing with factories overseas! Time difference, unable to get measured in person, and the back n forth messages on whatsapp is not a simple process but once the sized is dialed in you just ship fabrics for CMT and the process gets less painful.

Its all about the trial and error tons of great factories making very nice garments!

 

[Jamesbond1]

Lack of education is a huge part. People in Toronto have money (look at how many G-Wagens and AMGs are on the street) but 99% of them don't spend money on tailored clothing.

There's literally guys that would walk into Harry Rosen Bloor 3rd floor and asks "What is the most expensive dress shirt you got, I have a wedding I'm going to" and the SA will just hand them 5 $700 100Hands dress shirts.

Yup...gangster paradise attire.... lots of ballers with deep pockets and they dress like wanna rap stars!! There is no place for classic tailored menswear here!

And many here that do appreciate bespoke tailoring do have the mindset but not the deep pockets.... so $1000.00 bespoke suit from a so called bespoke named shop is what Toronto bespoke is all about!

Shipping heavyweight Magee fabric to China for balmacaan as I am typing this!

 

[mebiuspower]

Yup...gangster paradise attire.... lots of ballers with deep pockets and they dress like wanna rap stars!! There is no place for classic tailored menswear here!

Well, typical "Canadian" summer attire is a tee with shorts and sneakers with white socks.

 

[Viral]

Are any of you going to get a suit commissioned anytime soon? Asking for a friend

 

[Spaghettimatt]

Are any of you going to get a suit commissioned anytime soon? Asking for a friend

Yes.

 

[RapFan]

I think there is a lack of history here when it comes to bespoke. Does anyone know of a Tailor of toronto who has a lineage of tailors that have sprung from him? I.e. Tommy Nutter?

 

[induere_to]

Many people think of Signor Francesco as the greatest tailor to have ever been active in Toronto... but, as far as I know, he learned how to make jackets back home in Italy and then moved to Toronto to open a business. He could make jackets. That's it. He couldn't cut. I'm not saying he was awful, I'm just exposing a truth. Both Garrison and Harry Rosen lusted after a 'bespoke tailor from Italy' and he eventually sold his business to Harry Rosen; they took advantage of him and then he eventually won the lawsuit when Harry Rosen attempted to sue him for opening a new business directly across the street.

This isn't about trashing Francesco, it's meant to expose the politics behind the Toronto retailer behaviour that influences the ruin of something that is highly fetishized by the industry, and flies under the radar of consumers.

Sebastian worked with his father most of his life, they had disagreements; so as most sons would, he split out and worked in the shops of many other businesses before he got fed up and went to England to work on Savile Row. Although they do bespoke now, Cad & Dandy was just another shitspoke retailer passing as something greater. But, while Sebastian was there working in sales, he became good friends with Michael Browne who was apprenticing next door at C&M. Different aesthetics, different business practices, different opinions. But they remain close friends and continue to share ideas.

The last old age tailor left in Toronto is probably Spiros on Danforth. Though he has been around for decades, 95% of his business is now production similar to Antonacci and Balfour. He could do much better than he currently does, but when you're mass producing, you sacrifice a lot of your quality.

I did an apprenticeship for two years under a tailor that was inadequate, but it was my first step. You could say I'm unofficially apprenticing under Sebastian now, but I had to forget 95% of everything I was ever taught by Tony. The history doesn't matter, lineage and all that. Someone that is passionate will find a way to make garments to his own standards and his own methods. Many of the apprentices that have left C&M, have all gone separate ways and have created their own image. Sometimes, networking with other tailors around the world is enough to influence your own exercise of the trade and your understanding of it.

But, what Toronto does not have is education. Most people (including many people on this thread), don't actually know what bespoke tailoring is. Most people don't know the difference between what's made by hand or what's made by machine. Most people don't know the difference between what fits and what doesn't. Most people don't know how to walk into a business and ask the right questions, or how to detect the red flags. Most people don't understand why great things take time to make and whether or not a suit is even worth waiting half a year for.

Why spend $4000 on one suit that you receive in 6 months when you can buy 4 suits for the same price and receive them all within three weeks?

Myself, I'm also dying to get out of this city and going somewhere where my services are more in demand.

 

[Jamesbond1]

Many people think of Signor Francesco as the greatest tailor to have ever been active in Toronto... but, as far as I know, he learned how to make jackets back home in Italy and then moved to Toronto to open a business. He could make jackets. That's it. He couldn't cut. I'm not saying he was awful, I'm just exposing a truth. Both Garrison and Harry Rosen lusted after a 'bespoke tailor from Italy' and he eventually sold his business to Harry Rosen; they took advantage of him and then he eventually won the lawsuit when Harry Rosen attempted to sue him for opening a new business directly across the street.

This isn't about trashing Francesco, it's meant to expose the politics behind the Toronto retailer behaviour that influences the ruin of something that is highly fetishized by the industry, and flies under the radar of consumers.

Sebastian worked with his father most of his life, they had disagreements; so as most sons would, he split out and worked in the shops of many other businesses before he got fed up and went to England to work on Savile Row. Although they do bespoke now, Cad & Dandy was just another shitspoke retailer passing as something greater. But, while Sebastian was there working in sales, he became good friends with Michael Browne who was apprenticing next door at C&M. Different aesthetics, different business practices, different opinions. But they remain close friends and continue to share ideas.

The last old age tailor left in Toronto is probably Spiros on Danforth. Though he has been around for decades, 95% of his business is now production similar to Antonacci and Balfour. He could do much better than he currently does, but when you're mass producing, you sacrifice a lot of your quality.

I did an apprenticeship for two years under a tailor that was inadequate, but it was my first step. You could say I'm unofficially apprenticing under Sebastian now, but I had to forget 95% of everything I was ever taught by Tony. The history doesn't matter, lineage and all that. Someone that is passionate will find a way to make garments to his own standards and his own methods. Many of the apprentices that have left C&M, have all gone separate ways and have created their own image. Sometimes, networking with other tailors around the world is enough to influence your own exercise of the trade and your understanding of it.

But, what Toronto does not have is education. Most people (including many people on this thread), don't actually know what bespoke tailoring is. Most people don't know the difference between what's made by hand or what's made by machine. Most people don't know the difference between what fits and what doesn't. Most people don't know how to walk into a business and ask the right questions, or how to detect the red flags. Most people don't understand why great things take time to make and whether or not a suit is even worth waiting half a year for.

Why spend $4000 on one suit that you receive in 6 months when you can buy 4 suits for the same price and receive them all within three weeks?

Myself, I'm also dying to get out of this city and going somewhere where my services are more in demand.

Tim you keep calling yourself an apprentice but what comes out of your shop are garments far superior than many as you are so meticulous when it comes to your clients fit and how the drape of the suit is. The effort and the art that you possess already in a town like ours definitely deserves more recognition. This might not be the right platform as many are not able to appreciate and some that do might not be able to afford your art.

6 months and 4K is something I would be able to comprehend with if I was able to afford your art.

Having said that I don’t care if even God made a jacket by hand or an overcoat that I would have to spend 10k on and wait for 3 years. Most of the industries took Covid as an excuse for supply chain that still seems to be broken in many industries. I do understand some of it but I don’t agree with many of it.

If shops like liverano have clients lining up then they should do two things hire more people if they can and if they can’t then don’t take orders that have a 3 years turn around!

Keep in mind the Italians do make hand made Fiats ( horse logo)that sell for 1 million. They are junk but people think Enzo’s legacy and name deserves money wasting at!

Some of this makes sense much of this is a farse. If you know people you can get an automobile in 6 months while the rest wait 3 years to get the same vehicle.

In my humble opinion, your art is worth paying for and waiting for while some of these tailors now think they are making garments that are produced in heaven. I don’t like the cut and style of liverano but I see many here going nuts so they can wait 3 years if they do like to.

There is nothing but success for people such as yours who love what they are doing and take pride in what they are making for their customers! 🤜🤛

 

[art.of.tailoring]

I think there is a lack of history here when it comes to bespoke. Does anyone know of a Tailor of toronto who has a lineage of tailors that have sprung from him? I.e. Tommy Nutter?

Hi,
I'm based in Toronto and I've apprenticed under John DuBoise who was part of the Nutters crew back in the day. I learned a great deal from John on technical execution and drafting. I've never boasted about my training being a branch of Nutters because the look is very specific and my suits don't look like a Nutters suit... like Edward Sexton and Michael Browne's strong shoulder. I can make a shoulder like it but my suits are made for working professionals... So nice to see an interest.
I've also worked with Stavros Master Tailor (before it turned into Ferrigamo's), Sr Francesco and a Wonderful coatmaker named Chris Lagos in London UK. we made coats for the savile row shops. I grew up in the Tailoring/Bespoke scene in Toronto.

 

[RapFan]

Hi,
I'm based in Toronto and I've apprenticed under John DuBoise who was part of the Nutters crew back in the day. I learned a great deal from John on technical execution and drafting. I've never boasted about my training being a branch of Nutters because the look is very specific and my suits don't look like a Nutters suit... like Edward Sexton and Michael Browne's strong shoulder. I can make a shoulder like it but my suits are made for working professionals... So nice to see an interest.
I've also worked with Stavros Master Tailor (before it turned into Ferrigamo's), Sr Francesco and a Wonderful coatmaker named Chris Lagos in London UK. we made coats for the savile row shops. I grew up in the Tailoring/Bespoke scene in Toronto.

Where are you located. I have a few sport coats and suits by Lutwyche that may need some work.