The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[ericgereghty]

yea, i like whole cuts cause it differentiates itself between cap toe business shoes while not going full patent leather/opera pump...it was more a question if cordovan is appropriate? or the inherent shine put it at a half step between regular calf leather and patent leather?

Why not get the regular calf version and shine them up? $300+ extra seems a lot for a bit of natural sheen, and arguably (in my opinion) a less versatile shoe, particularly if you're saving them as your "black tie" footwear. Cordovan is not the most forgiving material, and wholecuts are comfortably the least forgiving style of footwear.

 

[blueberry7]

I had my ‘ramshackle’ tuxedo of a sbpl one button midnight/navy suit. Swap tie for midnight bow tie and keep black shoes and you can head to events straight after work. I’d like to learn the Viennese waltz and go to Vienna for their annual New Years ball...That’d be my excuse for having a set of tails but the timeframe for that is at least a decade away :-/

The annual ball of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, that's where it's at!

Vienna Philharmonic Ball - Vienna Philharmonic

www.wienerphilharmoniker.at

 

[classicalthunde]

Why not get the regular calf version and shine them up? $300+ extra seems a lot for a bit of natural sheen, and arguably (in my opinion) a less versatile shoe, particularly if you're saving them as your "black tie" footwear. Cordovan is not the most forgiving material, and wholecuts are comfortably the least forgiving style of footwear.

Fair, i didnt really consider the unforgiving nature of cordovan and didn't know that whole cuts were more unforgiving than other styles. I mainly got to playing around on the Carmina site and they caught my eye, but those are pretty compelling arguments against...

 

[ericgereghty]

Fair, i didnt really consider the unforgiving nature of cordovan and didn't know that whole cuts were more unforgiving than other styles. I mainly got to playing around on the Carmina site and they caught my eye, but those are pretty compelling arguments against...

It's not that they're much worse than calf. They're extremely durable, but, rather than crease like calf (which can be mitigated visually, particularly with cream and a heavy shine), cordovan with "roll," or rumple. I've not had success minimizing the appearance of cordovan rumples as I have with calf creasing, so I'd be a bit scared off knowing that when considering a shoe that has formal aims as its main function.
Right or wrong, I've always associated cordovan with more casually leaning styles (derbies, longwings, pennies, etc.), and it is a GREAT material for those, in my opinion.

 

[sftiger]

I had a pair of C&J shell cordovan shoes and I found them unbelievably uncomfortable (ended up selling them). I know people here love cordovan but these were the only dress shoes I've ever owned that really hurt my feet, rubbed them raw, etc. Maybe they just really didn't fit, but it seemed to have to do with the thickness of the shell.

I suspect shoes that thick worn for a night of cocktail hour(s) / dancing / generally being on one's feet would be pretty rough...

 

[Oshare]

It's not that they're much worse than calf. They're extremely durable, but, rather than crease like calf (which can be mitigated visually, particularly with cream and a heavy shine), cordovan with "roll," or rumple. I've not had success minimizing the appearance of cordovan rumples as I have with calf creasing, so I'd be a bit scared off knowing that when considering a shoe that has formal aims as its main function.
Right or wrong, I've always associated cordovan with more casually leaning styles (derbies, longwings, pennies, etc.), and it is a GREAT material for those, in my opinion.

Interesting discussion on shoes here.

I think with cordovan, it's really important to make sure the shoe fits properly in order to minimize the rolls.

I have about 12 pairs of cordovan shoes now and the ones that ended up with the most rolls are the ones that are too large. With calf it's not as noticeable because they just crease in different parts of the vamp, but with cordovan I think you end up with more rumples if the shoe is too long for your foot.

Black cordovan plain toe oxfords or wholecuts. Now that's a shoe I don't have. Worth thinking about!

 

[am55]

Another white tie hijack, but for those currently in Paris...

 

[nosch455]

My Philadelphia tailor has been commissioned to make one

Who do you go to in Philly? Gabe at D&B had the most fantastic midnight shimmer-velvet-polka dot tux a customer commissioned when I was in there last week. He has a guy who gets 2-3 new tuxes or DJs every year and each one is interesting. Burgundy silk, black and white houndstooth, a blue metallic shawl lapel he has on a mannequin right now...

 

[The Chai]

Who do you go to in Philly? Gabe at D&B had the most fantastic midnight shimmer-velvet-polka dot tux a customer commissioned when I was in there last week. He has a guy who gets 2-3 new tuxes or DJs every year and each one is interesting. Burgundy silk, black and white houndstooth, a blue metallic shawl lapel he has on a mannequin right now...

Each year!!!I already got three tuxes made this year and I thought I was pushing it

 

[classicalthunde]

Each year!!!I already got three tuxes made this year and I thought I was pushing it

I’m lucky if I get the opportunity to go to black tie events 3 times a year!

 

[classicalthunde]

Who do you go to in Philly? Gabe at D&B had the most fantastic midnight shimmer-velvet-polka dot tux a customer commissioned when I was in there last week. He has a guy who gets 2-3 new tuxes or DJs every year and each one is interesting. Burgundy silk, black and white houndstooth, a blue metallic shawl lapel he has on a mannequin right now...

Out of curiosity, what is the price point of D&B? Is it full bespoke? I’d be interested to see where it falls compared to other traveling tailors...

 

[The Chai]

I’m lucky if I get the opportunity to go to black tie events 3 times a year!

With dancing, the symphony, ballet and opera, I have an excuse a week to wear black tie

 

[C MattssonJH]

Do you guys think this fabric is too dark and coarse for a warm weather shawl lapel DB dinner jacket? Or should I opt for a more classic cream linen?

Too coarse - opt for cream please.

 

[C MattssonJH]

You mean a separate, odd dinner jacket. (In the UK, dinner jacket pretty much implies the whole suit).

Or, in the US, you have the following: one rents tuxes, purchases tuxedos at department stores, and has dinner jacket/suits made.

Black tie in the US depends where in the US. Here in CA if it is black tie this jacket with black pants would certainly pass as chic and fashion forward. In other parts of the country depending on the event and how strict the hosts were with “black tie” perhaps it would not be formal enough.

 

[nosch455]

Out of curiosity, what is the price point of D&B? Is it full bespoke? I’d be interested to see where it falls compared to other traveling tailors...

He doesn’t travel (except to Villanova because Jay Wright is too busy haha) but it’s well worth the visit - his shop is large and the array of fabrics available is impressive. They also are the best dry cleaners in the region.

I typically pay about $150 for full alterations - jacket back, jacket waist, sleeves, pants waist, taper, and hem.

Bespoke starts around $3,000 and all depends on fabric. I was shocked to find out how much Loro Piana costs a yard

Gabe and I were chatting last week about what makes his alterations different and it’s not even that he’s ‘old school’ (he’s 75). Instead of chalk, he uses tons and tons of pins. That way he can see exactly what’s going to happen on your body when he alters the suit - with chalk, it’s an experienced guess because you don’t know how it will drape until you cut and see