The official CELINE thread

[thorns]

Hedi fan frozen in time, clinging onto the Dior Homme era bags. It feels inspiring. A part of me wants to stay frozen in time as well.


You can tell by the bag design how the philosophy behind Dior Homme is different from the philosophy behind Saint Laurent and the philosophy behind Celine.

 

[SirGrotius]

Thorns - would be interested to hear your take on the philosophical differences between the three marques using the cues from the bags as your catalyst.

On more of the BLINK level, those bags ooze Dior Homme to me, and seem the most Hedi if that is possible.

On a somewhat tangental note, how old was Hedi during the DH days? Is there a creative peak in terms of a fashion designer's age, as there tends to be in other pursuits, such as music and sport?

 

[thorns]

There's a certain romanticism in having multiples of something you really believe in. The level of commitment required to have multiple pieces of items that really resonate with you feels very romantic.

 

[thorns]

On a somewhat tangental note, how old was Hedi during the DH days? Is there a creative peak in terms of a fashion designer's age, as there tends to be in other pursuits, such as music and sport?

Hedi was at Dior Homme from around 2000 - 2007. He was born on July 5 1968, so this puts him about age 32 - 39. I want to believe that since Hedi is the brains of the operations, his ability isn't too demanding on his physical abilities. I know that most people talk about how Dior Homme is the most creative. I think the evolution, even within Dior Homme, is a testament of how Hedi's trajectory changed. Early on he had a lot of pretty "standard" looking collections. fw01, ss02, fw02, and ss03 all look pretty standard except for the silhouette.

fw01 (Feels more current than being nostalgic and looking backwards obviously)

- the lapel flower would make a comeback 9 years later at Celine ss20

- emphasis on sleeveless designs, feels like a continuation of his previous work at Saint Laurent

- Hedi had a Japanese phase in early Dior Homme and I've always felt it was cringe

- Hedi was also channeling that 90s minimalism similar to Helmut Lang, but maybe slightly more delicate

ss02 (colour was a major theme, you could probably guess which colour. It is kind of amateurish in my eyes to focus it like that.)

- doubling down on that Japanese influence...very cringe

- silhouette getting slimmer and the signature of the early stacking look

- continuing with that late 90s - early 00s minimalism

- metallic fabrics for suits were popular in this era, feels kind of tacky nowadays...so dated

fw02 (rebellious school boys)

- continuation of that slim and long pants and sleeves

- introduction of this light grey...feels like dark academia that he would revisit 7 years later in fw19
- I'm loving this collection now after recontextualizing "prep" as dark academia.

- brown makes sense for that dark academia

- Hedi already started pushing bags for men in fw02

- rubber soles on footwear was often a thing at Dior Homme, only creepers at Saint Laurent, only Rangers and creepers at Celine
- there is this practicality and modernity involved in rubber soles....insistence of leather soles is almost someone trying to really be forceful with a "classical" image in our modern era

ss03

- feels like the first time Hedi introduced denim on the runway, how rebellious

- doubling down on metallic fabrics for suits

- feels like a precursor to the "legendary" fw03 collection
- this is the beginning of Hedi wearing a thin shorter scarf looped around his neck...I find it ugly...however I did wear a scarf like that in the late 00s too...

fw03

- almost feels out of place, sticking out like a sore thumb

 

[kieran84]

Does anybody know if there's a 98% cotton 2% elastane slim black raw jeans at Celine, or is it the 100% cotton only like these:

Official Online Store United Kingdom | CELINE

United Kingdom Official CELINE online store. Explore and buy all the latest collections: handbags, leather goods, ready to wear, shoes, jewellery and sunglasses

www.celine.com

Cheers

 

[ASAPRice]

Hedi fan frozen in time, clinging onto the Dior Homme era bags. It feels inspiring. A part of me wants to stay frozen in time as well.


You can tell by the bag design how the philosophy behind Dior Homme is different from the philosophy behind Saint Laurent and the philosophy behind Celine.

the deville bag is the best bag hedi's ever made, don't @ me

 

[cloonz]

SS05 has always been my favorite collection at Dior Homme and most of the clothes seem to hold up in terms of wearability whenever I'd revisit it.

 

[thorns]

- silver chains galore on your wrists, e-boys would salivate if they realized they could stack their wrists similarly to how they stack their necks

- jackets and hoodies

- introduction of colourful neon coloured hoodies that he would revisit for Celine's Monochroms collection that would become controversial in 2020

- black coated "skinny" jeans

ss04

- first time putting sneakers on runway, paired with distressed denim
- move to shorter jackets that he will continue doing, even at Celine

- Hedi exploring a variety of denim finishes that he continues until at least fw13

- all black looks feel like a continuation of fw03

fw04 (another shift to British indie)

- clothes starting to look wearable for people to look cool in without trying to be thought provoking
- more effortless than previous seasons that tried to say some artistic statement

- introduction of suede footwear

- feels like the older brother of fw13

- I've been choosing the looks that don't disgust me, so I'm not 100% capturing all the essence of his work at Dior Homme
- Here is an example of a look that is very gimmicky to my eyes with the "arm warmers", Dior Homme felt very designed and gimmicky rather than something more effortless

- introduction of GATs

- I can't shake the feeling that this is another reference to Japan

- chunkier belt feels youthful and relaxed with a certain sloppiness

- rubber soles are no surprise, very practical and not fussy

ss05

- sleeves either hit just right or are long so far in all seasons including this one

- revisiting a more voluminous silhouette similar to fw01 but way more sloppy
- looks like an m65 military jacket that Hedi would revisit in ss13

 

[thorns]

- grungy plaid Cali influence
- addition of skate culture sneakers into his work

- sagging jeans adding to that overall "I don't care" vibe

- probably one of the better looks of ss05
- Hedi was really forcing wearing scarves like that as a Dior Homme signature...feels a bit affected

fw05

- feels like a continuation of fw04 and an older brother of fw13

- Hedi introducing the fedora....looks cringe in hindsight
- Pete Doherty era, British indie rock

- introduction of heel dress boots that he would become famous for
- introduction of metallic leather for footwear

- Hedi rocking that signature scarf look
- very disappointing that he's wearing actual converse instead of his own converse sneakers he designed for ss05...what kind of message is that even sending about his own work?
- also curious why he isn't rocking the heel boots...guess he wants to feel younger with sneakers

ss06

- Hedi deep diving into British fashion
- it feels like it is done in such a juvenile way, probably one season I have a visceral disgust towards

- continuing with the fedora
- great for teaboos

- first time cropped everything: pants, sleeves, and jacket length

- first time introducing sunglasses on runway, the birth of the merchandising king
- they were probably aiming for people to buy the suspenders too

 

[thorns]

- birth of bomber jackets that Hedi will continue

fw06

- very dressed up and tight fitting bourgeois
- looks similar in idea to what he would present at Celine fw20

- very bold of gender blurring, introducing a "Chanel" jacket for men
- close fitting and cropped

ss07

- beautifully cut suit that will become the template for other designers in the 2010s

- leather jacket + shirt + tie

- couture piece with the beading that will be something he will continue

- experimental looks are back

- introduction of sandals that will come back in ss20

- cropped sleeves perfect for stacking bracelets...an idea he would revisit in ss13

- Hedi again with the converse, not wanting to wear those Repetto shoes...I don't blame them I'm not a fan of those either

 

[thorns]

fw07

- feels experimental again
- Hedi relaxing his silhouette, feels like an 180 compared to the direction he was heading previously
- sleeves long
- pants are cropped however
- no more dress boots or dress shoes, back to chunky boots

- feels like the older brother of fw19
- a lot less polished and messy

- first and only time Hedi showing jeans tucked into boots for men

- introduction of the beautiful couture blazers

- Hedi really likes wearing white sneakers for his runway look

Overall there are only a few early seasons that resonate with me from his entire Dior Homme work. I only really like ss02, fw02, one single ss03 look with floral printed dress shirt, fw03 chain bracelet idea for cosplay purposes, and fw04. The rest of his work just feels a bit too pretentious, showy, and trying too hard.

 

[thorns]

Thorns - would be interested to hear your take on the philosophical differences between the three marques using the cues from the bags as your catalyst.

On more of the BLINK level, those bags ooze Dior Homme to me, and seem the most Hedi if that is possible.

Hedi releases a range of bags for each house, so it isn't right to generalize the whole identity of the brand based on a few bags. Big luxury brands have to have multiple identities/narratives to cater to a large market. This is a super simplistic way of looking at Hedi's philosophy at each brand, but I think it is worth investigating.

Dior Homme
- I could only find certain bag designs Hedi released so there isn't a lot of data points
- You can see how a lot of the bags lean masculine (silver hardware, chunky exposed zippers, and feels designed)
- There is this gaudy element present where there isn't that effortlessness to the designs

ss04 arm bag

- very cool idea of an arm bag for when you're wearing sleeveless looks
- feels experimental and super cosplay because it is way too gaudy to be worn normally
- Final Fantasy 15's Prompto would look good with this arm bag in place of his bandana

Deville line that might have been introduced in fw06
- has that washed effect which gives it a relaxed sloppiness
- silver hardware o-rings and exposed zippers
- abundance of pockets to give a design element to the bag
- unnecessary tassel detail for more design elements

- The line includes more than just the duffle bag, they also had more business bags too

Hedi was a fan of the Deville duffle bag himself


He also launched a coated canvas monogram collection at Dior Homme
- He didn't invent the Dior Oblique pattern, but I think he did invent this very subtle way of presenting it
- I think the subtleness really makes sense in the context of the 00s
- silver hardware again

- unnecessary metal detail on the strap, reminds me of those microphone plug

- another business bag with perforated leather this time
- feels casual and not that elegant

Plissé line
- probably the more dressy option at Dior Homme
- carries that Plissé detail that is meant to evoke the design of the cummerbund

- he has used the Plissé motif in a couple of items including bags, belts, wallets, keychains, fragrance bottle caps, and even cigarette cases

Although there are certain elements present at Saint Laurent that is similar to Dior Homme, like the exposed silver zippers, and similar bag categories, both brands' items don't feel the same. Saint Laurent is a lot more minimalistic and clean in comparison. Dior Homme has this distinctive playfulness that fits the brand narrative. In general, the silhouette at Dior Homme isn't very clean. There is this dishevelled nature that fits very nicely with the Deville line. I think the Deville line pairs nicely with ss03 up to fw07. Fw06 is debatable for me, but it is the season that launched it... There might be other bags that might fit to a specific season better, but in general I think the Deville duffle is quite versatile for Dior Homme. The Plissé line feels more suited to fw06 to me.

The Dior Homme bags/accessories definitely doesn't feel like Celine. The Deville line has this masculine ruggedness that is more interested in being casual and sloppy/relaxed and looking designer/stylish at the same time. The Plissé line is more of the higher end more polished and dressy. It is still very designed with the masculine straight lines.

 

[thorns]

At Saint Laurent, the bags targeting men were a lot more minimalistic. Very clean lines that I feel fits perfectly with the Saint Laurent silhouette.

One of the first bags released at Saint Laurent was the Duffle line. Very minimalistic and androgynous. Looks similar to bowling bags so there is this masculine heritage to them. It just looks way more beautiful than the Dior Homme Deville line in my eyes. Looks so luxe in comparison.

This Japanese Hedi fan rocking a smaller Duffle 6. I think it would look more masculine if he upped to size to the Duffle 12.

The logo looks very similar to Phoebe's Céline work.

Worn with the handles around your wrist and it looks more feminine. Worn with the strap makes it look more masculine.

In addition to the more androgynous Duffle 12, they also released a more masculine line with silver details. The Rock line definitely embodies the Biker aesthetic of ss13 and fw13. Although it is more masculine, it still feels distinct from Dior Homme. Everything is very neat and tidy. The straps are real straps for the pockets, rather than faux snap ones.

They also released a backpack version. This line is a lot more rugged, but it feels very classical and "vintage" rather than something experimental. I'm a bigger fan of the backpack than the other bags in this line. I think they also had a messenger bag version but I can't find it.

Saint Laurent also had more business bags

Very similar to that Dior Homme Plissé bag, but lacks the straight line design so it is more clean. Also the hardware and logo is in gold. Silver feels very masculine, while gold carries some femininity/androgyny. I think silver version were available but not 100% sure.

There are other business briefcases available as well. Again with a minimalistic design.

I'm more of a fan of handles being movable, but I don't think it would be a deal breaker.

Hedi also launched a monogram coated canvas series at Saint Laurent. Brown and black so it is louder than his monogram bags at Dior Homme but a bit more masculine than his Celine monogram work.

Gold hardware for that androgynous luxe feeling of course.

The whole launch of the monogram line seems to be trying to position Saint Laurent with LV. I feel like his Dior Homme work is "below" his Saint Laurent and Celine work in terms of brand identity. There was more of an emphasis at Saint Laurent to elevate the brand to that upper tier of luxury brands. The bags feel a lot more traditional and classical. There is less of a feeling of items being overtly designed (there are exceptions of course). I'm not going to delve into the woman's offerings. However from the get go, Hedi was positioning some bags (like shopping tote bags) to be androgynous. There is an overwhelming minimalism Hedi was proposing. I think it fit perfectly well with the more clean cut Saint Laurent look that would normally pair with bags in the first place.

The initial focus of the bags were more of the classical more dressy ones. As time went on, they bags started leaning more and more casual after they have built the foundation of the brand. Backpacks were emphasized and looked like their casual bag offering.

I think these backpacks fit nicely with the more casual Saint Laurent looks. Playful but the shape is also quite classical.

 

[Louis Louis]

@thorns Thanks for your work on the chronology. Very interesting.

 

[kieran84]

The DH 2005 Duffels, which were more like a sports bag shape as they were cylindrical, were one of the most sought after DH bags. They don't look as dated as the deville line does now.

Ordered the slim black raw so I'll feed back on how they are when they arrive. Seems like all the slim are 100% cotton looking at the website so I went ahead.

Another question, are mid waist the only trousers available or do stores have low waist as well? I want some black gabardine trousers but I think I'd prefer low waist. Also do the classic business suits come with low or mid waist? And Thorns any pictures of the classic trousers (not the more unusual ones like pleated, new wave though etc please)

Thanks