The New Official Wolf vs. Goat Thread

[trig]



Get a 34, I know I have a 34 in stock. The question really is what is your actual pant waist?

I tried last night and this morning but I guess you changed inventory and it seems I'm able to add it to cart now. I'm 34.5".

the lounge pants sit below the midway between hip and navel right? they seem pretty low rise, so possibly even at the hip bones?

 

[ryosuke]

Is the second batch of the brown/white/red plaid shirt almost done?

Regarding the brand, I have about 5-8 of the button downs and a plum sweater. The great thing I find about WvG is the fit of the garments (shirts in particular since nothing off the rack really fits me, but WvG fit is spot on) and price point. The shirts, tees and henleys are definitely great value compare to what else is out there. The fact that I can get the length customized as well just pushes the brand over the top for me. Knowing everything is made domestically is awesome too and that's why I support. I find myself buying more tops just cause it's easier to wear patterns and prints on shirts rather than pants.

What would keep me buying as I head into my 30s are interesting fabrics and pieces that would wear well with each other. I really think having that "WvG outfit" would push the brand to the next level. You've nailed the shirts, now the chinos may just be as big.

 

[DarkDestiny]

I won't be making anymore. I have summer berry in stock I believe. I will be making more Cotton/Tencel shirts. They are the prefect fabric for summer time. The wicking, weight, and texture are all key for summer garments.
The Henley fit changed. I opened it up more. The first henley was just to damn fitted. I think you will find a lot in the future. As a rewards member you have a life long membership of finding great things. I wouldn't worry.
March is a HUGE month for me. Tees, Sanded canvas chinos, over dyes, prints, and basics will all be released in march and the beginning of April.

What other basics are you referring too? I need to budget accordingly!

 

[VLSI]



I LOVE the look of these over the original lounge pant. These would fit perfectly with all the stuff I already wear and I wouldn't dress these up. Not that you can't, but rather I think it looks way better dressed down because of the strong taper and stacking.

My problem is figuring out the fit. Especially the thighs. I don't want to be constricted, but at the same time want them to fit well. Mauro I emailed you for some assistance.

I'm really hoping someone comes out with something akin to the old wings+horns anti-fit chinos. They don't make them anymore though

 

[Tigerprawn]

I'll have to go back and re-read through a lot of the posts carefully, but the thing I love about WvG aside from the fact we get to interact directly with Mauro and have a say in what is produced is the fact that everything I have bought has been consistent in size and quality.

I own... 7+ button downs now I think. Maybe more. They all fit exactly the way I need them to and are consistent in the way they fit with the exception of thicker fabrics which I ordered AD instead of BD. Every time I order a shirt I know I'm a M B/D unless Mauro states otherwise which is a really good feeling.

PS I like the cool prints. Keep em coming.

 

[Blackmaged]

i'm glad i'm not the only WvG customer with this perspective.

mauro, don't get me wrong but i think the sweaters need a redesign - the raglan sleeve doesn't do it for me, would much rather have a fully fashioned (non-raglan) shoulder that would still be high quality but, in my opinion, much more attractive. i wear my green cashmere from 2012 a lot, but still i try to stay away from raglan nowadays because it just doesn't look as good on me. besides, my more "traditionally constructed" knits are still holding up just fine.
i'd much rather see the $$$ spent on whole garment construction spent on details like a raised rib collar, texture (although I like the popcorn stitch), and even higher quality wools.

tees are great, don't mess with those (although a slightly deeper neck on the rollnecks would be ace).

ditto msg on the whole chinos and loungewear thing.

Here's my perspective:

1) Who do your customers need to be in order to grow the brand? Is it office/biz-casual guys? Or, guys more on the streetwear side?

These are different customers with different buying habits.

I'm a street wear guy. So, for me, I'm looking for fit, design, and fabric; quality is important, but it's a difficult to evaluate, especially online, as a consumer. I know I'm getting better quality than J Crew or, say, James Perse, but I'm not sure how much better and I'm not sure how much more I want to pay.

Chinos and trousers are uninteresting to me: I don't work in an office.

I've been a rewards member for about 1.5 years. The pieces that excited me most are the tees, the recent wool flannel MTO (would buy another if there was more fabric!) and some of the casual button-downs.

The design of the knits don't appeal to me and whole-garment construction sounds nice, but I don't want to pay for it. I'm usually buying knits from SNS, White Mountaineering, MMM, etc. In other words, I'm paying for design at a similar or higher price point than your knits.

So, I would buy a couple more tees (and plan to do so); the fit and fabric are killer. I would even pay more for them. I'll be looking forward to summer shirting as well. And, next fall, I hope you have killer fabrics for more flannels.

But, trousers and chinos aren't something to excite me.

The lounge wear stuff (hoodies etc) are somewhat interesting to me - and, in comparison, John Elliott seems to have done well with that model - but, in the end, for me, that stuff will always be last on my list, as I just don't wear that type of stuff often enough to want to spend money there.

So, for me, WvG is a brand that provides the opportunity to buy stuff with a great fit, great fabrics (please continue to explore interesting fabrics like the tees and cotton/tencel blends; for me, it's a differentiator) and quality.

One last thought - one challenge, for guys like me who aren't in an office, is that there's a limit to how many tees or button-downs I need. So, that's why the design is so important - you've got to be producing stuff that's interesting and different enough from anything I've already got to keep me buying.

 

[akatsuki]

@Msg - I am completely the opposite as far as preferences. I care a lot more about the inane details that nobody sees (whole garment, etc), don't need lot of random weird stuff that is ultimately very limited, and would love to see Mauro even offer much higher end fabrics and construction (e.g, his pants are great, but my Paul Stuarts by Caruso are still the best made and best fabric I have seen thus far).

The best model for clothing I have seen is Gustin's where they put up the options and crowdfund it to a peak to know what to go ahead with. I just wish they would branch out and do different things than just jeans, an occasional flannel, and trucker jackets. Frankly, I would love to see a much higher end version of the same (and have considered launching one myself).

 

[jmaudi0]

going with the Massdrop idea would be awesome. (www.massdrop.com)
No, I don't work for them. I haven't even bought anything from the site but I think it's really cool how it works.

 

[notwithit]



I'm really hoping someone comes out with something akin to the old wings+horns anti-fit chinos. They don't make them anymore though

@Msg - I am completely the opposite as far as preferences. I care a lot more about the inane details that nobody sees (whole garment, etc), don't need lot of random weird stuff that is ultimately very limited, and would love to see Mauro even offer much higher end fabrics and construction (e.g, his pants are great, but my Paul Stuarts by Caruso are still the best made and best fabric I have seen thus far).

The best model for clothing I have seen is Gustin's where they put up the options and crowdfund it to a peak to know what to go ahead with. I just wish they would branch out and do different things than just jeans, an occasional flannel, and trucker jackets. Frankly, I would love to see a much higher end version of the same (and have considered launching one myself).

On the one hand, you totally should, that would be awesome.

On the other hand, you shouldn't, that would be so incredibly difficult to launch and make successful, plus you'd have to deal with asshole customers all the time.

 

[Mauro]



i'm glad i'm not the only WvG customer with this perspective.

mauro, don't get me wrong but i think the sweaters need a redesign - the raglan sleeve doesn't do it for me, would much rather have a fully fashioned (non-raglan) shoulder that would still be high quality but, in my opinion, much more attractive. i wear my green cashmere from 2012 a lot, but still i try to stay away from raglan nowadays because it just doesn't look as good on me. besides, my more "traditionally constructed" knits are still holding up just fine.
i'd much rather see the $$$ spent on whole garment construction spent on details like a raised rib collar, texture (although I like the popcorn stitch), and even higher quality wools.

tees are great, don't mess with those (although a slightly deeper neck on the rollnecks would be ace).

ditto msg on the whole chinos and loungewear thing.

Fashion is subjective and your reasons are valid. I can do a non raglan sleeve. I can do a set sleeve with whole garment. The reason I do whole garment opposed to full garment is because of quantity and the drape of the whole garment is technically better. I can't make the minimums for Full Fashioned knitting in the USA or I would use Full Fashion Knitting.
There is a boat load of amazing ideas ( I think) I have for knits but knits are tricky and expensive. Even making 1 sample piece can cost between $500.00 and $1,000.00. This is why I stick with the popcorn raglan sweater. Will I make different styles, yes. It will take time and a lot of patience and money. I honestly can't use higher quality yarn than I am using now.The wool is amazing, strong, and handles the looms like a dream. Understanding quality yarns is a very complex situation that goes much further than the actual yarn itself. If I made a full fashioned cardigan or your ideal sweater would you pay the $350.00 to $600.00 it would cost, honestly?
You can see by peoples responses a good chunk wants one thing while another chunk wants another. It's a very hard balancing act keeping everyone happy and keeping everyone interested in a brand. The one good thing is that people are voicing their opinions so I can make garments for everyone. This is the whole point of the rewards program ,with the rewards program I can offer the highest quality fabrics for those who want it at the same time I can offer a more budget friendly fabric ( with character) for the people who don't care as much about fine fabrics and details.

My next blog post will be on buzzwords and how they can damage a good thing. It's worth the read. It's a little general but you will get the point. I think we all have fallen victim to buzzwords at one time or another. It's a slippery slope for me to talk about because I don't want to call out another brand for cutting corners will marketing their product in skirting way. My focus is only on Wolf vs Goat , making it the best brand for my customers while standing behind my vision and it's not easy thing to do, lol.
I do respect your opinion and value your support. Thank you for your comments, they have be noted.

 

[akatsuki]



On the one hand, you totally should, that would be awesome.

On the other hand, you shouldn't, that would be so incredibly difficult to launch and make successful, plus you'd have to deal with asshole customers all the time.

Well, to be fair, it should be a pretty automated yes/no system. Frankly given the number of MTOs floating around the forum, Styleforum should just build something like that in and let people launch MTOs and other deals that way. Of course, for the most part, I mostly want to hit critical mass for random stuff I want (e.g., alligator chukkas from Carmina or Vass; custom fabric runs for suiting and shirts) and find the soliciting through threads to be too much of a pain.

 

[AchtungBaby07]

Just to chime in on the whole discourse. I'm also of the view that Mauro should perhaps first focus on building on some of the basics such as tees and button downs and complimented with the occasional capsule and members only special fabric runs and not be distracted by producing accessories at the moment.

It's akin to how epaulet eventually became a mainstay as it has established itself as the go to option for trousers before branching out to other products. Similarly, Mauro could focus on making the normal line of trousers to get people sold on the fit, before selling them the idea of higher quality bloodline pants. I for one can vouch for the quality of the bloodlines and I have tailors commenting on how well made the bloodlines are when I sent in mine for minor alterations. While I enjoy the details and attention that goes into my trousers, ultimately it is the fit and fabric that matters the most to me. Therefore, Mauro should perhaps focus on getting people to dig the fit first before moving on to the next level stuff.

I also agree that there is a lack in coherence to some extent. I'm again using epaulet as an example. What epaulet has done well is in having a more focus target group which is leaning towards the biz cas vibe. While in the case of wvg, it does appear to be all over the place at times.

Just my humble 2cents as a loyal customer

 

[Blackmaged]

i agree it's subjective - it's ultimately up to you what you want the brand's core "look" to be (which will ultimately determine your audience). i think i've mentioned to you before, that I am probably not your target customer just based on my wardrobe, but i think you put out some great pieces which is why i continue to pick up some things here and there.

good point about the true costs of knitwear production, i can see the risks with being more ambitious with them especially given the brand's size. i think a lot of the go-to designer knitwear brands (jil sander, stephan schneider, etc.) have skewed my expectations to be honest but that still doesn't mean i'm willing to stop dreaming

perhaps paring down the color selection would be a way to go? instead of offering 6+ colors of a fabric (and risking taking a loss on one being unpopular) go for 3 or so, and then have a newer style in 1 color? not sure if it's feasible given run minimums, but when i think of sweaters from other SW&D knitwear titans they usually only come in 1-2 colors, sometimes 3.

Fashion is subjective and your reasons are valid. I can do a non raglan sleeve. I can do a set sleeve with whole garment. The reason I do whole garment opposed to full garment is because of quantity and the drape of the whole garment is technically better. I can't make the minimums for Full Fashioned knitting in the USA or I would use Full Fashion Knitting.
There is a boat load of amazing ideas ( I think) I have for knits but knits are tricky and expensive. Even making 1 sample piece can cost between $500.00 and $1,000.00. This is why I stick with the popcorn raglan sweater. Will I make different styles, yes. It will take time and a lot of patience and money. I honestly can't use higher quality yarn than I am using now.The wool is amazing, strong, and handles the looms like a dream. Understanding quality yarns is a very complex situation that goes much further than the actual yarn itself. If I made a full fashioned cardigan or your ideal sweater would you pay the $350.00 to $600.00 it would cost, honestly?
You can see by peoples responses a good chunk wants one thing while another chunk wants another. It's a very hard balancing act keeping everyone happy and keeping everyone interested in a brand. The one good thing is that people are voicing their opinions so I can make garments for everyone. This is the whole point of the rewards program ,with the rewards program I can offer the highest quality fabrics for those who want it at the same time I can offer a more budget friendly fabric ( with character) for the people who don't care as much about fine fabrics and details.

My next blog post will be on buzzwords and how they can damage a good thing. It's worth the read. It's a little general but you will get the point. I think we all have fallen victim to buzzwords at one time or another. It's a slippery slope for me to talk about because I don't want to call out another brand for cutting corners will marketing their product in skirting way. My focus is only on Wolf vs Goat , making it the best brand for my customers while standing behind my vision and it's not easy thing to do, lol.
I do respect your opinion and value your support. Thank you for your comments, they have be noted.

 

[joshg8]

I think this is probably the avenue I will venture down. It's smart. I knew I needed to get the bottoms launched a while ago. The dandy pants did so well. I think people know people will be happy with the chinos and shorts. I will make a couple more jackets. I have found a new factory that makes high quality outwear for some S&D favorite designers and plan on using them for the windbreakers, throw on blazers, and jackets ( including the pea coat).

Thank you for the feedback and thank you to the people who took the tie to email me.

Best,

Mauro

Happy to hear all this. I love my 2.0 Lounge pants, but my day-to-day style is more button down and jeans, chinos, or shorts with leather shoes or boots. I would love to see a casual "throw on" blazer and some more jackets as well as some basic or not-too-crazy shorts and chinos. I have been going to Epaulet Rivets, but I haven't been overly impressed with construction (had stitching issues on 2 of 4 pairs of pants) and the fit, while one of the better I've found for me, is still not perfect.

 

[Mauro]



i agree it's subjective - it's ultimately up to you what you want the brand's core "look" to be (which will ultimately determine your audience). i think i've mentioned to you before, that I am probably not your target customer just based on my wardrobe, but i think you put out some great pieces which is why i continue to pick up some things here and there.

good point about the true costs of knitwear production, i can see the risks with being more ambitious with them especially given the brand's size. i think a lot of the go-to designer knitwear brands (jil sander, stephan schneider, etc.) have skewed my expectations to be honest but that still doesn't mean i'm willing to stop dreaming

perhaps paring down the color selection would be a way to go? instead of offering 6+ colors of a fabric (and risking taking a loss on one being unpopular) go for 3 or so, and then have a newer style in 1 color? not sure if it's feasible given run minimums, but when i think of sweaters from other SW&D knitwear titans they usually only come in 1-2 colors, sometimes 3.

That's a numbers game
I offer more colors so I don't have to go in to deep in one particular color. The players you see SNS, jil Sanders, etc... Meet there minimums with their stockists and online shops combined so that they don't need to stretch themselves and can keep their story tight. I do feel I give to many color options at times but it's either more colors or more stock . I feel more colors is the lesser evil. I have around 650 members maybe 10 buy ALL the time. The rest buy maybe 4 to 6 pieces a year on average and that's impressive. Now if I can build my core base to 1200 or 1300 making minimums wouldn't be as difficult and I would have better pricing and we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fashion game is not designed for small fish to survive.
To be perfectly honest Epaulet has an outstanding business model. I would not call them small either. Mike's rent for his 3 or 4 locations a month would scare the ******* **** out of me. If I sold as much as he pays in rent a month I would be happier than a pig in ****. Two locations in NYC and his LA gig not cheap. I applaud him and wish him even more success.
In time my business will grow every year it seems to grow in a healthy direction. I will probably hit the 800 number by next year and 1,200 the year after. If people stick around they will see no price increases and a more cohesive brand identity.
I received an interesting email today for a rewards member who lurks. I asked him to post his email here so we could talk about his idea, hopefully he does. It would be very interesting to see how you guys would respond to his email. If he doesn't post it I will ask him if it's ok for me to post it.

One quick thing. I would totally do a website like Gustin but with high end product like I do and a much better turn around time. The only problem is that I believe their website is custom made and that **** is $$$$$.