Site Topics - Part II

[Piobaire]

Btw, it's "Piob." Rhymes with "weed."

wouldn't rhyme with weeb?

Drat, you're correct. I guess "dweeb" is a better example?

 

[idfnl]



People that develop a problem with DT are usually the folks that can dish it out but not take it. I say this as someone that has had multiple threads started about him with the sole purpose of people ragging on me. And yet...apparently I'm in an evil cabal to drive people insane...I think people often just see what they want to see.

That's so typical. You're dead wrong. Nobody wants to enter a space and be ganged up on and abused for doing basically nothing like not telling a joke just so. I've been really disappointed at some of the behavior I have seen take place in DT around ganging up on someone because its easy. Its impossible to defend yourself at that point because idiots will call you a delicate flower and tell you you can't take it. Frankly, yes, Pio, you are part of the problem, just look at the bullshit you triggered below the quoted post to see the result. Your post is an attempt at intimidating people from speaking up against the abuse.

You do often act like a bully here. First time I encountered you, it was in the wine thread where you tried to put me in my place only to find out a number of my family members were vinters. Then you backed off.

After that we've chatted in other threads and differed and agreed respectfully and I can say with 100% honestly we'd probably get on well if we met face to face. But you and many others allow that mania to take over and you really treat people like **** in DT sometimes. I engaged in it at times myself. While ya, this is a ******* website, I do sometimes think of things I did or said here, like everyone with a 1000 posts or more prly does. I also admit I have felt bad doing **** while watching noobs get trashed knowing if I stepped in I'd be ganged up on as well.

So I'm an intimidated delicate flower for calling out the cool kids and suggesting they close down the store. Fine. I would argue differently.

 

[Piobaire]

People that develop a problem with DT are usually the folks that can dish it out but not take it. I say this as someone that has had multiple threads started about him with the sole purpose of people ragging on me. And yet...apparently I'm in an evil cabal to drive people insane...I think people often just see what they want to see.

That's so typical. You're dead wrong. Nobody wants to enter a space and be ganged up on and abused for doing basically nothing like not telling a joke just so. I've been really disappointed at some of the behavior I have seen take place in DT around ganging up on someone because its easy. Its impossible to defend yourself at that point because idiots will call you a delicate flower and tell you you can't take it. Frankly, yes, Pio, you are part of the problem, just look at the bullshit you triggered below the quoted post to see the result of thoughtless commentary.

Let me say also that we've chatted in other threads and differed and agreed respectfully and I can say with 100% honestly we'd probably get on well if we met face to face. But you and many others allow that mania to take over and you really treat people like **** in DT sometimes. Let me also say I engaged in it at times myself. While ya, this is a ******* website, I do sometimes think of things I did or said here, like everyone with a 1000 posts or more prly does. I also admit I have felt bad doing **** while watching noobs get trashed knowing if I stepped in I'd be ganged up on as well.

So I'm an intimidated delicate flower for calling out the cool kids and suggesting they close down the store. Fine. I would argue I'm willing to speak my truth openly in the face of the potential to be easily ridiculed for it.

I've been ganged up on more than once. You get to pick how you handle it.

The concept of closing the store...sort of fascist. It's like taking your ball and going home. You have decided it's not a good place to be. No mater what I think your motivations are to stay out of there I respect people that realize something, anything, is not for them and stays out. Someone was very ****** to me in a recent DT thread so I'm just staying out of that thread for awhile until it's buried in a few pages. Everyone else gets to keep having their fun and doesn't get impacted because something bad is happening in my life. I personally think people deciding what's good for everyone else is a little too rampant.

Oh, and it's "Piob." Sounds like "peeb."

 

[idfnl]



I've been ganged up on more than once. You get to pick how you handle it.
The concept of closing the store...sort of fascist. It's like taking your ball and going home. You have decided it's not a good place to be. No mater what I think your motivations are to stay out of there I respect people that realize something, anything, is not for them and stays out. Someone was very ****** to me in a recent DT thread so I'm just staying out of that thread for awhile until it's buried in a few pages. Everyone else gets to keep having their fun and doesn't get impacted because something bad is happening in my life. I personally think people deciding what's good for everyone else is a little too rampant.

I understand your point and you may be right. I've handled it by leaving the store. My argument is that DT is a proxy for mistreatment in other parts of the fora and impossible to moderate properly per my previous post.

If I were Fok and J I would ask myself: does DT contribute to the mission here? My personal answer is no. That's why I advocate for eliminating it. In addition its just a moderation nightmare.

 

[Bhowie]



Things go in cycles. I don't think MC is doomed, but I don't think it is perfect. Conditions there are obviously inhospitable to some people we would prefer to have stay, even at the expense of thousands of non-quality posters. The solutions are not obvious but we are discussing options and implementing some things immediately. One of the things is to get all the mods up to speed and on the same page in terms of the moderating attitude we prefer here, and how to handle being both a mod and a regular person. Another is getting the Dubiously Honored clear on how their privileges work, and encouraging them to use them in self-moderated threads that will stay as on topic as the starter desires. Personally, I don't care if you kick out everyone else in your whole thread, for the record, as long as you're not any more of a dick about it than necessary.

I would prefer the forum be more autonomous zones than micromanaged, but we may need to give more people access to better tools to maintain cleaner common areas (such as the ability to merge repetitive noob threads into mega 'ask a question' threads), and to establish a little more clear control/expectations over some threads/forums. I think establishing more 'trusted areas' where people feel free to share, not with a sycophantic chorus, but also not subject to a bunch of hectoring detractors, will encourage some valuable people to come back and contribute like they used to.

There are lots of other technical things we are pushing for, but some of this we can start doing immediately.

Hey J,

I think a similar ruffling of feathers like this happened before the change over to hudler. A lot of similar complaints were made around that time. If I recall correctly the response from the mod team was about the same as it is now.

This response has been very frustrating to myself, and Vox. The response from you guys has generally been, and I'm paraphrasing, "Sure there are problems, but they aren't that bad. You guys are overreacting." The solutions you guys have offered seems to just placate us. They are technological solutions. Not really addressing the issues that are bothering a lot of peopl.

Thank you guys for taking the time and considerable energy to engage us in this conversation.

 

[Piobaire]

Idfnl, I understand what you're saying and agree moderation might be problematic. I'm just hesitant to decide it's an "either/or" type decision.

 

[Manton]

This is the story of Danny’s friends and of Danny's house. It is a story of how these three became one thing, so that in Tortilla Flat, if you speak of Danny's house you do not mean a structure of wood flaked with old whitewash, overgrown with an ancient untrimmed rose of Castile. No, when you speak of Danny's house you are understood to mean a unit of which the parts are men, from which came sweetness and joy, philanthropy and, in the end, a mystic sorrow. For Danny's house was not unlike the Round Table, and Danny's friends were not unlike the knights of it. And this is the story of how that group came into being, of how it flourished and grew to be an organization beautiful and wise. This story deals with the adventuring of Danny's friends, with the good they did, with their thoughts and endeavors. In the end, this story tells how the talisman was lost and how the group disintegrated.

 

[idfnl]



Idfnl, I understand what you're saying and agree moderation might be problematic. I'm just hesitant to decide it's an "either/or" type decision.

You're right. Not an easy choice. I had to fire a guy a few months ago because corp culture-wise he wasn't a good fit for a role. He was ok, had a hard to find skill set but was more trouble than he was worth. Now I had to retrain folks to take over his work which has been in itself problematic. Production problems, I have to step in more than I have time for, etc. I knew it was a pain ********** keeping him, a hassle not having him. No easy answer. I made a decision and lived with it.

 

[LawrenceMD]



^I like to envision that house being where the IMAX theater now is.

 

[Bhowie]

I guess I'll stick up for DT. Don't really want to as I think is a real nonissue.

I'm not seeing the problem of DT bleeding into the rest of the forum. This could have been true a year or two ago, but I don't see it happening now. Regulars that post there and in other parts of the forum keep the DT in DT. Hell 4 of those people are now mods. Digmenow posts regularly in DT and MC, he seems like a really nice guy that doesn't cause distraction in MC. i don't think stitches is ever mean outside of DT. Nil contributes positively to SWD. W/A doesn't post anywhere else. I AM DIL actually contributes to CE. I think those are posters who regularly post in DT and don't contribute to the nastiness of SF.

There are people who I think are a negative impact on SF. I'm not going to name names that isn't what this post is about. I will say this about those guys, with the exception of one person, they aren't nasty individuals. Unless I'm missing people, if I am please tell me, I don't really see the problem you are speaking of.

I think their are 3 people who jumped you hardest in the gif thread. They really aren't big DT guys. 2 of them are despised by 90% of the forum.

Im not going to analyze myself, that would be a silly exercise. If people think I contribute to the nastiness of SF thats fine, I'm willing to listen to their opinion.

I won't get into the positive merits of DT, I don't think people who want it gone will see those. I just don't see the problem that a few of you guys are talking about. Sure DT can be fratty, abusive, nasty, juvenile, whatever other negative adjective you want to call it. I don't see DT causing those problems in the rest of the forum. I'm really willing to hear how you think this is happening, no joke. I'm taking off my snarky ahole hat.

 

[Manton]

I am a sensetive flower as we all know but I too don't see the problem with DT. I mean, it is a toxic waste dump but the waste seems to be confined there. Well, that's not quite right, we have plenty of waste elsewhere but I think it is unrelated waste. The DT waste is not seeping into the rest of the forum. The rest of the forum has its own source of waste.

 

[Bhowie]



I am a sensetive flower as we all know but I too don't see the problem with DT. I mean, it is a toxic waste dump but the waste seems to be confined there. Well, that's not quite right, we have plenty of waste elsewhere but I think it is unrelated waste. The DT waste is not seeping into the rest of the forum. The rest of the forum has its own source of waste.

I think this is relatively true. If that makes me toxic waste, I'm ok with that.

 

[idfnl]



I guess I'll stick up for DT. Don't really want to as I think is a real nonissue.
I'm not seeing the problem of DT bleeding into the rest of the forum. This could have been true a year or two ago, but I don't see it happening now. Regulars that post there and in other parts of the forum keep the DT in DT. Hell 4 of those people are now mods. Digmenow posts regularly in DT and MC, he seems like a really nice guy that doesn't cause distraction in MC. i don't think stitches is ever mean outside of DT. Nil contributes positively to SWD. W/A doesn't post anywhere else. I AM DIL actually contributes to CE. I think those are posters who regularly post in DT and don't contribute to the nastiness of SF.
There are people who I think are a negative impact on SF. I'm not going to name names that isn't what this post is about. I will say this about those guys, with the exception of one person, they aren't nasty individuals. Unless I'm missing people, if I am please tell me, I don't really see the problem you are speaking of.
I think their are 3 people who jumped you hardest in the gif thread. They really aren't big DT guys. 2 of them are despised by 90% of the forum.
Im not going to analyze myself, that would be a silly exercise. If people think I contribute to the nastiness of SF thats fine, I'm willing to listen to their opinion.
I won't get into the positive merits of DT, I don't think people who want it gone will see those. I just don't see the problem that a few of you guys are talking about. Sure DT can be fratty, abusive, nasty, juvenile, whatever other negative adjective you want to call it. I don't see DT causing those problems in the rest of the forum. I'm really willing to hear how you think this is happening, no joke. I'm taking off my snarky ahole hat.

Ok, since you asked:

lol **** you are dumb

That's the spillage I'm talking about.

My guess is you felt I was an easy target because you've seen me get pelted in the past and assumed it would happen again. I'll admit that when I saw that post I thought to myself 'here we go with the fucktards ganging up on me'. Luckily it didnt happen, but the provocation took place.

Respectfully, I suggest you don't see the problem because you are part of it. I don't write that to make an enemy out of you, but if we are showing our cards, here are mine. I'm not going to go as far as saying you contribute nastiness Bhowie, I've enjoyed a lot of your posts and don't take issue with you.

 

[oneeightyseven]

to be fair what you said was pretty dumb, bhowie was just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Bhowie]

Ok, I can be nasty outside of DT. That is one post of many I've made outside of there. I don't even think 5% of my posts outside of DT have been nasty. I think I can make a defense of most of these posts, but I won't. I'll just take ownership and say I can be nasty outside of DT.

That is still only 1 poster out of the many in DT. There are a lot more posters in there. I named the most prolific posters in DT who also happen to be the most prolific dt'ers in the other forum. I'm asking you to explain what else the problem is.