seems like people still have unrealistic expections on muscle growth: solution within

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by jarude

Mmm, I just can't resist. 1. Out of sight, out of mind - if I know you're spouting BS most of the time, the ignore feature filters it out for me. 2. Considering insulin blunts fat loss, why doesn't it matter? Also, unless there's some conspiracy by berry farmers to get you to eat more low-GI carbs - which are arguably better for you (oops, forgot there's no such thing as healthy foods) - how would this be a marketing angle? 3. Except your idea of "science" is pubmed - if I'm looking to get stronger and look better, I'm going to trust someone who has trained thousands of people and has the results to back it up. Note there is a different between "trainers" and trainers - the kid working at your local gym likely doesn't know whats up, whereas established names in the weightlifting community who have trained thousands and have all of their results to speak for them holds far more weight than your pubmed studies. 4. I'm actually dieting my way down to single-digit - 15% is my starting point. Yeah, lower body fat is definitely "better" - healthier, looks better, chicks dig it, etc. Not arguing on that one - see more later. 5. Sorry, you're confusing fat with being extremely ******* jacked. Yes, he has more bodyfat than a competition bodybuilder, but to call him fat is ridiculous. Even if he is "fat," he is in a far greater position to have an incredible physique with a little bit of fat loss. If his physique isn't your cup of tea, who cares? I say he's a ******* monster, you say he's disgusting. I personally don't want to look like him, but if I was able to deadlift 700 pounds, I'd be able to have the physique of my dreams in an incredibly short time. 6. For anyone who has ever picked up a weight with the intention of using it to make themselves look better, you should know the value of strength. If I really have to explain to you why strength is important in either powerlifting or bodybuilding, then you're beyond hope. Furthermore, some people (myself included) enjoy weightlifting for reasons beyond vanity - as a sport, as an exercise in self discipline, or hell, maybe because it feels good. Maybe once I'm strong as **** I can look like a "powerful leader of men" too. The only thing you can call me out on is responding to you while you're on my ignore list - you've got me there.

However, you've really managed to make an ass of yourself this time. -You question my "obsession" with strength in a thread about weightlifting - more specifically, a thread about how it is viable to become more muscular while eating at a deficit. I have no idea how focusing on becoming stronger would relate to this!!!

Bonus points: you started the thread. -You deride insulin as a significant factor in weight loss by calling it another "marketing angle," yet in the same thread you insult another poster for questioning the marketing practices of your chosen fitness website. -You have not posted any of your body weight, body fat %, weightlifting stats, or physique to back up any of your pubmed-inspired rantings. Bro-skis, you seem to lump "SCIENCE!!" on one side and "LOL STRENGTH TRAINERS SUPPLEMENTS PROTEIN RARGG BULK" on the other. Note, I did not advocate massive overeating in order to get huge, and nor do respected strength coaches. If you researched your opponent, you'd realize that many of them preach the same ideas you do - however, their methods of doing so are far more sound, and based in results proven thousands of times over tested on a huge cross-section of people (read: more proven than pubmed). Furthermore, quality coaches don't try and push their own products as you claim they do. Yeah, there are a TON of snake-oil salesmen/trainers in the industry; these aren't the coaches I'm referring to. Again, you're confusing supplement-chugging broscience types with quality strength trainers, so please know who and what you're talking about before you lash out. I get where you're coming from, mang - there's a ton of bullshit out there re: fitness, supplements, protein, etc. whatever. I agree with you. We're more on the same team than you may think. However, there's a big difference between the aforementioned broscientist trainers selling you supplements, and quality trainers. It seems that you've come across some semi-enlightened people, read some journals, and had some success with their methods, and its working for you, re: your ideal of looking like a "a powerful leader of men." That's all well and good, however, don't confuse pubmed and one particular website with being "the truth" as you have stated before. I know that sounds funny considering every other word out of my mouth is IRONADDICTS, however, for anyone seriously involved in weight training for either sport or vanity its guaranteed success. Consider this: Thats a considerable lack of dogma and a considerable amount of open-mindedness from someone who you think is the tool of marketing execs. Likewise, his mantra envelops your ideals - its worked for you, so good. Don't confuse that with having the ultimate answer to looking good naked. The fact that you're arguing that your word is the holy writ and there's no disputing it tells me you're either a) immature, b)extremely stupid, c)extremely conceited or d)an excellent troll. If it's D, GG and WP, you ******* owned me. If it's not... Considering humility is a trait learned by many weightlifters along the way - there's always someone bigger, stronger, or having a better physique - you'd do well to shut the **** up and put your time in knowing what you're talking about and what you're arguing against before you open your mouth like this. So please, untwist your panties, stuff them in your mouth, and never speak again. I feel dirty for wasting this much of my life on this post

******* LOL i have never seen so many straw mans in my life. and fyi, i would rather listen to someone who has a masters degree in nutrition and human biology, has 8+ years of industry research & experience with top supplement companies, has all the usual certifications (even if admitted to be b.s., but at least know what they are about first-hand), was a university varsity strength and conditioning coach for 3 years, and has trained with world class powerlifting teams than some random internet commentators lmao. and even then, you should still verify their claims, hence PUBMED. oh, that's right - LISTEN TO IRONADDICTS BECAUSE THEY DON'T USE SCIENCE AND SCIENCE SUCKS! also, protein causes just as much of an insulin spike as carbs. these are all irrelevant discussions on HOW the body processes food and WHY the basic formula of calories in vs. calories out stands. to say that understanding how insulin works disproves the basic formula of calories in vs. calories out makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! marketing with false or misleading information is dishonest. cheesy marketing is just cheesy. ****, seriously. these marsupialed arguments you guys keep posting explains why you guys are so easily scammed.

 

[CunningSmeagol]

Lots of people on IA have those same qualifications.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by Gibonius

I've got a bit of a unusual perspective on this whole "exercise science" business. I'm a practicing scientist (chemist), so I have the research mindset, with a good number of years of lifting and sports experience. I am generally quite fond of the literature, but it tends to be fairly weak for strength training topics. It appears, to me, that this is largely because the studies are written by people without much serious experience in lifting and using subjects who are not particularly dedicated or gifted. When there's such a massive breach between the "practical wisdom" of people who move big weight or have incredible physiques and the literature wisdom, I'm forced to question the literature, especially in a field with so many variables. The questions are not fully explored, at minimum. I'm also a Type 1 diabetic, so I have a bit of an insight into the insulin question. I've had two significant weight loss periods in my life: one where I switched insulin types and lost 30 lbs of fat in two months without any other changes, and another where I switched to an insulin pump and could completely control my insulin levels. For me, lowered insulin levels almost directly leads to fat loss. Caloric deficits will work, but it's damn hard, and the benefits only really pop up once I get to adjust my insulin levels later on. I went on a crusade to increase my insulin sensitivity awhile back and it finally let me hit the ~10%BF I'd been working for. Was quite hard for me to maintain though, alas. I could also use insulin to pack on muscle like a fiend, but that's pretty easy to explain. Added 150 lbs to my squat in six weeks the one time I really let myself exploit that to a decent degree, added 10 lbs and it wasn't all that lean, so I won't do it again. Now this may have minimal, if any, application to normal healthy people. But it does indicate that insulin plays a role beyond just "calories in, calories out" in fat loss, and in muscle gain.
1. right, and that's why muscle research should always be taken with a huge grain of salt. anyone who says they know exactly how much protein we need or we need to eat X amount at Y time doesn't know what they're talking about. at best, we only know a range of protein to eat, e.g. a rolling daily average 70-120 grams, and muscle growth is mostly determined by the quality of your workouts. everything else is going to be based on dubious/inconclusive/flat out misinterpreted research. 2. many of the dumb insulin advice out there is geared only for people with diabetes, but it has somehow become part of mainstream nutritional advice. another commonly spread advice is to eat 6 times a day to control your blood sugar. yeah, that's ONLY an issue if you have blood sugar regulating problems (which 99% of the population do not) like if you have diabetes. i hope you guys are beginning to see a trend here - we have advice geared specifically for drug-users, people with diabetes, and young children that are now being preached to the drug-free, diabetes-free, adult masses.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by CunningSmeagol

Lots of people on IA have those same qualifications.
and there are also doctors with phds that are spreading misinformation.

so you're left with examining their claims and arguments. according to jarude, we're not allowed to use pubmed to verify their claims.

 

[jarude]

Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe

******* LOL i have never seen so many straw mans in my life. and fyi, i would rather listen to someone who has a masters degree in nutrition and human biology, has 8+ years of industry research & experience with top supplement companies, has all the usual certifications (even if admitted to be b.s., but at least know what they are about first-hand), was a university varsity strength and conditioning coach for 3 years, and has trained with world class powerlifting teams than some random internet commentators lmao. and even then, you should still verify their claims, hence PUBMED. oh, that's right - LISTEN TO IRONADDICTS BECAUSE THEY DON'T USE SCIENCE AND SCIENCE SUCKS! also, protein causes just as much of an insulin spike as carbs. these are all irrelevant discussions on HOW the body processes food and WHY the basic formula of calories in vs. calories out stands. to say that understanding how insulin works disproves the basic formula of calories in vs. calories out makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! marketing with false or misleading information is dishonest. cheesy marketing is just cheesy. ****, seriously. these marsupialed arguments you guys keep posting explains why you guys are so easily scammed.
...except protein is used in muscle synthesis, and is least likely to end up on your hips, while glucose gets stored in the liver/muscles as glycogen only if there's a demand such as a workout or hard physical labour (read: not all the time). Therefore, the excess blood sugar then gets converted into new fat and stored in adipose tissue. Hence why eating low GI carbs and paying attention to macronutrient ratio to limit the insulin response is a good idea. Higher GI carbs = higher insulin response = more glycogen stored as fat = more fat. How is that going to assist fat loss? Notice I never said insulin disproves calories in vs. out - I said it disproves the fact that its the only thing to consider in fat loss. Read -> comprehend -> then post, please. Furthermore, you also have a diabetic affirming the importance of insulin in fat loss. Find me some pubmed that shows that eating high-GI simple carbs in tandem with low levels of protein allows for a decrease in bodyfat % and maintenance of athletic performance at a significant level. Actually, show me 1000 studies, then we'd have the same weight of evidence. Again, I never said Ironaddicts doesn't "use science" (lol). You're still arguing against something that's not there, - lumping "science" on one side, and "trainers" on the other. FWIW, every diet discussed at IA is explained by science and based in scientific theory - they just realize the fact that nobody needs to know about the krebs cycle, or whatever reasons why a diet or method of fat loss works. They just need to know that it works, and how to do it.

Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe

and there are also doctors with phds that are spreading misinformation. so you're left with examining their claims and arguments. according to jarude, we're not allowed to use pubmed to verify their claims.

Your reasoning invalidates the legitimacy of your own sources. You really are stupid. Your post really proves you're really just an elaborate, well thought out, and successful troll. I swear, I am never clicking on "view post" again. Damn.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by jarude

...except protein is used in muscle synthesis, and is least likely to end up on your hips, while glucose gets stored in the liver/muscles as glycogen only if there's a demand such as a workout or hard physical labour (read: not all the time). Therefore, the excess blood sugar then gets converted into new fat and stored in adipose tissue. Hence why eating low GI carbs and paying attention to macronutrient ratio to limit the insulin response is a good idea. Higher GI carbs = higher insulin response = more glycogen stored as fat = more fat. How is that going to assist fat loss? Notice I never said insulin disproves calories in vs. out - I said it disproves the fact that its the only thing to consider in fat loss. Read -> comprehend -> then post, please. Furthermore, you also have a diabetic affirming the importance of insulin in fat loss. Find me some pubmed that shows that eating high-GI simple carbs in tandem with low levels of protein allows for a decrease in bodyfat % and maintenance of athletic performance at a significant level. Actually, show me 1000 studies, then we'd have the same weight of evidence. Again, I never said Ironaddicts doesn't "use science" (lol). You're still arguing against something that's not there, - lumping "science" on one side, and "trainers" on the other. FWIW, every diet discussed at IA is explained by science and based in scientific theory - they just realize the fact that nobody needs to know about the krebs cycle, or whatever reasons why a diet or method of fat loss works. They just need to know that it works, and how to do it.
listen up closely now. we are always either in a fed or unfed state. insulin is the dominant hormone in the fed state that causes you to store calories from food in the form of fat and glycogen. glucagon is one of the dominant hormones in the unfed state that causes fat burning. insulin = fat storage glucagon = fat burning both carbohydrates or protein elicit the same insulin spike. so practically ALL food with calories will elicit an insulin spike. if you eat more calories than you burn, you are in a fat storing state. if you eat less calories than you burn, you are in a fat burning state. SO ******* SIMPLE. congratulations - you've just been suckered into marketing!

Originally Posted by jarude

Your reasoning invalidates the legitimacy of your own sources. You really are stupid. Your post really proves you're really just an elaborate, well thought out, and successful troll. I swear, I am never clicking on "view post" again. Damn.
that's because you have the IQ of a rock. that was obviously sarcasm when i said we can't use pubmed to verify other people's claims. *facepalm*

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by jarude

I swear, I am never clicking on "view post" again. Damn.
5 bucks he's gonna respond anyway. like the last four times he said wasn't going to lmao.

 

[db_ggmm]

There's no reason to respond to you. As of post 52 in this thread, you have 25 of them. You've clearly confused substance with verbal diarrhea. Between your bizarre opinions regarding the value of strength, your ideas of vanity lifting / cutting, and your anorexic idols at "adonis" - you are obviously such a weirdo there's no reason to pay you any more attention.

IA would ban you. BB would neg you. SF let's you run free.

I'm guessing you are:

1) weak
2) skinny
3) prone to injury
4) haven't increased a lift in 3 years

 

[CunningSmeagol]

You guys both need to check this site:

http://www.abrahampath.org/about.php

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[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by db_ggmm

There's no reason to respond to you. As of post 52 in this thread, you have 25 of them. You've clearly confused substance with verbal diarrhea. Between your bizarre opinions regarding the value of strength, your ideas of vanity lifting / cutting, and your anorexic idols at "adonis" - you are obviously such a weirdo there's no reason to pay you any more attention. IA would ban you. BB would neg you. SF let's you run free. I'm guessing you are: 1) weak 2) skinny 3) prone to injury 4) haven't increased a lift in 3 years
you're obviously a lost cause. male and female readers, do you think this guy looks anorexic?

female readers, do you think these guys look attractive?

i'm guessing db_ggmm is: 1) fat 2) deluded 3) brainwashed 4) lost touch with reality (probably from reading too much bb.com and 70sbig.com) i mean, seriously, to say that allen elliot looks anorexic explains everything. lol @ the weirdo calling me a weirdo. in fact, your 70s big idols look like total weirdos while the experienced and supposedly anorexic adonis guys are deemed attractive and respectable by both almost all men and women. *shakes my head* and duh, of course i have the most posts in this thread. if i have 25 posts in this thread, then there must be 25 posts directed at me. if you don't want me to post in MY OWN thread (lol), then don't ask me questions! unbelievable, really.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

post #27 for yah:

******* LOL. this site is hilarious: http://www.70sbig.com/?page_id=2

It’s currently in vogue to have a spindly, thin appearance which is typically accompanied by a low body fat percentage. Regardless of why this has come to be, those who have such an appearance are not very useful. Imagine asking someone of this “stature” to help you move your car out of the road, haul some lumber, or even fend off a potential zombie attack. It simply wouldn’t be feasible.

 

[embowafa]

gee, you must be a blast at dinner parties.

you do realize that even if your information was 100% accurate, 100% objective, and 100% foolproof, your grating demeanor and overall annoying tone turns everyone off to it? I HIGHLY doubt you care, but just some food for thought. BTW, ever bothered to stop and think different people could want different outcomes from their workout routines? Yeah...I didn't think so.

 

[db_ggmm]

I have never said anything about 70s big. Straw man?

The black guy looks good. He also looked good before he used your "site" so he really doesn't prove any worthwhile point.

You're still a spambot.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by embowafa

BTW, ever bothered to stop and think different people could want different outcomes from their workout routines? Yeah...I didn't think so.

exactly, so tell these asshats to make their own threads.

 

[not_a_virus.exe]

Originally Posted by db_ggmm

I have never said anything about 70s big. Straw man?

The black guy looks good. He also looked good before he used your "site" so he really doesn't prove any worthwhile point.

You're still a spambot.
now you're backpedaling. so are the experienced adonis guys anorexic or big?

lol too easy.