Random fashion thoughts

[Makeshift_Robot]



I feel like there's this little niche of SWD that's the indomitable village of gauls surrounded by roman legions of timeless and classic menswear.

Trust me, they think they're an indomitable village of gauls too. Where really it's just two villages of gauls in a world of romans who want to yell '******' at them from the passenger seat of a moving car.

 

[LA Guy]



I'll be a voice of dissent or devils advocate I guess. Looking at what gets posted here onWAYWT in both forums, I think we're far from reaching the point where we've achieved collective greatness on the basis of aesthetic value alone, and where we *need* to move beyond the aesthetically pleasing and onto the intellectually satisfying. Until we're there, hard to say it's boring to seek what we find aesthetically pleasing. Naturally, there are millions of permutations of cuts, lengths, colors, textures that can achieve aesthetic greatness, and 100x more that fall short. Expressing a lifestyle choice, belonging to a social or cultural tribe doesn't seem to me to be mutually exclusive from looking good. I find it really difficult to see fashion as a form of art that expresses ideas in a way that's dissociated from the aesthetic qualities of the clothes - IMO, if it's the designer's objective there better forms of artistic expressions for that

I'm probably going to continue to dress in my "uniform". I am interested in clothing on other people, and in the fantasy of fashion.

 

[LA Guy]



Trust me, they think they're an indomitable village of gauls too. Where really it's just two villages of gauls in a world of romans who want to yell '******' at them from the passenger seat of a moving car.

lol. Sig worthy. Someone do it.

 

[the shah]



IMO, if it's the designer's objective there better forms of artistic expressions for that

this is true. but perhaps the objective involves not just some artistic expression but the dynamic expression of altering/distorting/conforming to the human form while in motion. hence clothing

 

[GoldenTribe]



I find it really difficult to see fashion as a form of art that expresses ideas in a way that's dissociated from the aesthetic qualities of the clothes - IMO, if it's the designer's objective there better forms of artistic expressions for that

A designer can make a collection whose point has nothing to do with "looking good," as others have mentioned, but the "aesthetic qualities of the clothes" are essentially, by definition, the avenue of expression in the industry of fashion; what else would there be? You are stating a self-evident truth in the garb of utter nonsense.

 

[Makeshift_Robot]



I find it really difficult to see fashion as a form of art that expresses ideas in a way that's dissociated from the aesthetic qualities of the clothes - IMO, if it's the designer's objective there better forms of artistic expressions for that

Can you give an example of this in another medium? I don't know what this means, unless you're talking about this forum's jargon use of the word 'aesthetic'

edit: **** like 4 other people beat me to it

 

[cyc wid it]

I think he's saying that if the point is to make conceptual stuff that has nothing to do with dressing a person they should do something else like paint or sculpt or whatever?

 

[Ivwri]

I think that's a bit limiting to be honest. So should architecture not be discussed in terms of its relevance to art and culture as well as function and aesthetics? Should car design be solely about aerodynamics and how well the vehicle did in the wind tunnel before hitting the production line? Even if you think they should be, they aren't and while you will always get the people who prioritise their personal expression over the function of the object they are creating, their respective fields will weed them out. Same thing with fashion I think.

Apart from all the more kooky stuff, Rei Kawakubo has successfully created a fashion empire on the back of both her avant garde designs, more wearable pieces that distill the spirit of the upper reaches of her craft and then more plebeian stuff like CDG Play etc. She is no stereotypical artist completely self-absorbed and egotistical.

These things are not mutually exclusive at all and in my opinion they shouldn't be. As human beings we look for patterns everywhere and our brains arguably reward us for teasing them out of obscure places. Providing content for that very human drive (at least in those of us with >= average curiosity and intellect) should be something we encourage. Yes, clothing is utilitarian, but once people started ascribing meaning and function to certain types of clothing or even colours and types of fabrics, the floodgates were thrown open. It's a very small leap from wearing a suit to show that you are a high ranking member of a corporation to wearing a suit to show that you don't care for corporations and in fact you are also a vegan-anarchist bent on causing the total collapse of society. Is one art and the other utilitarian simply because the latter not an officially recognised institution yet? Both sets of people should be able to declare themselves with their clothing and in that sense, I guess even the most far out stuff (like that lump & bump dress pppp posted earlier) serves a proper utilitarian purpose as they allow these people to tell you that they are interested in kooky clothing and enjoy expressing themselves that way .

Also the whole idea of enjoying a certain kind of music among other things and that informing how you dress is something that has been going on for quite a while now and it has become a very straightforward shorthand for most people to show their alignment and feel closer to the things they are interested in.

 

[sipang]



I find the intersection between commerce and art to be a fascinating part of fashion. Fashion, is, at its core, a commodity, and has always been, so designers work within some pretty tight constraints. For me, it's what they can do within these constraints that makes fashion interesting. For me, the divorce of commerce is what made, and continues to make, classical music, pretty irrelevant in modern life. I believe that without an audience, any artistic endeavor is ultimately futile.
All that said, I agree that constant talk about "wearability" is boring. And I certainly don't think that anyone is trying to remove fashion from any associations with culture, inspirations, references, subcultures, etc... Actually, I think that these associations, consciously or subsconciously, inform us about the "worth" of a piece of fashion or an entire collection. These goes for something from Post O'Alls as much as it does CCP as much as it does Brunello Cucinelli.
I will have to disagree with the bolded part. Technique is wonderfully interesting, whether it's the artisanship of tailors, or the origami like folding techniques and leather treatments of M.A.+.

Fok, I agree with most of this but I think it misses my point.

I actually have no problems with fashion being a commodity, contraints are what make all design interesting and I'd love to read people discussing the merits of originality vs. wearability or how a label manages or fails to preserve its creative integrity while remaining commercially viable. I'm also sure that (sub)concious associations inform the way people gauge collections, the technical side of the whole thing can definitely be fascinating too.

But nobody talks about any of that. What I'm lamenting really, is the lack of discussions that aren't directly related to a recent or future purchase down the line, I don't want to dissociate fashion from consumerism but surely there are others things to talk about that the fit of a shirt or the thickness of a sole. I should add that people that don't understand at all why you would have any interest in the creative process behind something you don't plan on owning seriously boggle my mind. This has nothing to do with finding a deeper meaning in the folds of silky Ann Demeulemeester shirts, this has to do with artistic sensibilities. Do you like to go to a museum of browse a photography book, do you like good design, woodworking ? It's the same thing.

I don't want to engage fashion philosophically, my expectations are more superficial than some might think, it's just that my shallowness has more breadth.
I like to look at beautiful ****, I don't need to own a painting to enjoy it or to be interested in the brush technique used. I don't care whether fashion should be considered an art or not, it's a visual medium and as such I feel it has more to offer than purely pragmatic considerations on wardrobe building. Of course most people are here only for that and that's fine by me, but just because you can buy fashion doesn't mean you can't enjoy it in any other way.

 

[the shah]

i, for one, visit museums zoos and foreign lands to consider my next purchases -- arts, animals, people, it's all about the consumption.

 

[sipang]

I find people-buying online quite frustrating.

 

[brad-t]

Lane, I am not sure how The SoloIst is NOT wearable. It's actually probably one of the best fusions between wearable streetwear and fashion as art.

What isn't wearable about this?

Sipang, I largely agree with what you're saying there. I guess I'm not even sure where I would go to talk about things like that, here.

 

[GoldenTribe]



I find people-buying online quite frustrating.

I never get the size I ordered; it's almost like they grow en route.

Sipang, I think one aspect of the overarching issue you brought up is that the higher-level content tends to come from videos and publications. They get posted, or at least linked, and the reaction is "cool"/"awesome"/"where to kop [floral codpiece]?" and then everybody moves on. The appreciation of that material probably happens on a wider scale than you are acknowledging (or maybe I'm just being optimistic for once) but the digestion doesn't happen out in the open. When I've seen something really interesting that somebody's posted there isn't always that much of substance to say in response; frequently it's a thumbs-up and I bookmark it and, again, move on to something else.

 

[noob in 89]



I find it really difficult to see fashion as a form of art that expresses ideas in a way that's dissociated from the aesthetic qualities of the clothes - IMO, if it's the designer's objective there better forms of artistic expressions for that

Interpretive semaphore would be more appropriate, hence the popularity of films like Bruno, and the urgent need for threads like graphic novelty's copywrite bonanza.

...you are now left with things like nikki minaj.

somebody pls tell me who the eff this is.



.

 

[willy cheesesteak]



someone pls tell me who the eff this is.