RANCOURT & Co. Shoes - Made in Maine

[FatTuesday]

I would suggest that folks trying to stretch their handsewn Rancourt shoes a bit use split toe shoe trees rather than fixed toe ones. All the pressure goes straight forward on a fixed toe tree and may stretch the length of the shoe (depending on the shape of the shoe and the shape of the tree). Split toe trees will put more pressure on the sides of the toe box.

use these:

not these:

I haven’t tried split toe shoe trees, but I dislike the regular ones for handsewns. I removed the springs from some of mine so they wouldn’t put pressure on the front of the toe. They can deform the front of the shoe a bit on anything with an unstructured toe.

I don't remove the springs and I also don't necessarily use split toes either but I just rest the heel of the tree on the top of the back of the heel so that there is no pressure.

Yes. That is another great option if you don’t have want to mess with the shoe trees.

I keep all of my shoes in shoe bags when I’m not wearing them to make sure the cats don’t get to them. That’s the main reason I went with removing the springs when necessary. Easier to work with for me.

Another trick to help stretch CXL is to put the shoe tree in a sock and insert into the shoe. This works as well for shoes as it does for holsters.

 

[BAK]

My Pinch Penny loafers in Carolia Brown CXL arrived and look great but I am concerned about sizing.

I ordered a 9.5D which is a 1/2 size down from my 10D brannock and what I do with most loafers to get a tight heel fit. They "width" fit is very snug with socks and not too bad without socks. How much do these actually stretch width-wise and should I exchange for a 9.5E ?

I think if you had stuck with 10D (or if you exchange for 9.5E) you'd ultimately be in a shoe that's too big, either from the beginning or after they did a little stretching. I think you can definitely plan on your unlined chromexcel loafers stretching. I read (as you did I'm sure) all the recommendations of using shoe trees to assist with some stretch, or putting socks on the shoe trees, etc. What I would say is this... if you can wear them relatively comfortably for short periods of time they should continue to stretch. If they're not stretching fast enough, or you just simply want them to hurry up and fit already, stretching unlined Chromexcel is a simple task for a cobbler. He or she will put a proper wooden stretcher in the shoe, let it set for awhile, and you could probably get the shoes back in a day feeling significantly different.

Or if you want to forego the cobbler and handle it yourself you could do so with little investment. If so, buy some of that spray stuff they suggest too.

 

[NYCTechNerd]

I think if you had stuck with 10D (or if you exchange for 9.5E) you'd ultimately be in a shoe that's too big, either from the beginning or after they did a little stretching. I think you can definitely plan on your unlined chromexcel loafers stretching. I read (as you did I'm sure) all the recommendations of using shoe trees to assist with some stretch, or putting socks on the shoe trees, etc. What I would say is this... if you can wear them relatively comfortably for short periods of time they should continue to stretch. If they're not stretching fast enough, or you just simply want them to hurry up and fit already, stretching unlined Chromexcel is a simple task for a cobbler. He or she will put a proper wooden stretcher in the shoe, let it set for awhile, and you could probably get the shoes back in a day feeling significantly different.

Or if you want to forego the cobbler and handle it yourself you could do so with little investment. If so, buy some of that spray stuff they suggest too.

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback and advice.

I have being wearing them at the end of the day around our apartment for about 60-90 minutes at a time when me feet are probably a bit swollen. My wife thinks I look ridiculous because I am often in sweatpants at this point in the day so even wearing a casual loafer with a camp moc sole looks silly (see earlier posts and pictures for a visual representation).

 

[NYCTechNerd]

Another day at the office, salt mines, or whatever you want to call it but I am working on breaking-in and stretching my new Pinch Penny loafers. The reason I think I might need a wider size is that one can already see the sides bulging out in the toe box of both shoes. And that is exactly where my foot "flares" and why Ronnie from Moulded Shoe (aka Alden dealer with the most in-stock shoes on the Mofified last) said I am a perfect candidate for the Modified last. Too bad I visited him after I purchased these shoes.

The imprint from my toes is over the stitching and up onto the sidewall of the shoes

 

[Luscombe]

Another day at the office, salt mines, or whatever you want to call it but I am working on breaking-in and stretching my new Pinch Penny loafers. The reason I think I might need a wider size is that one can already see the sides bulging out in the toe box of both shoes. And that is exactly where my foot "flares" and why Ronnie from Moulded Shoe (aka Alden dealer with the most in-stock shoes on the Mofified last) said I am a perfect candidate for the Modified last. Too bad I visited him after I purchased these shoes.

View attachment 1580398

Doesn't look too bad from the photos.
If you can stand the pressure while breaking them in, they will be like wearing a glove once they mold to your feet.

As an aside, in the mid 1990's we took a trip to Maine and stopped at LL Bean and I purchased a slip on handsewn moccasin. It was not CXL. But it was very tight. I have narrow feet so when I find a shoe that fits, I usually buy it. Anyway, it took me over a year to break those shoes in. I'd get blisters on my heel, etc. Once they were broken in, man they fit like a nice snug glove. No heel slip and really snug on the sides. Last summer I took them to a local cobbler and had new soles put on them. They are still a great fit and a classic shoe.

Stay with yours, they will stretch to match your feet. You'll be glad you did.

 

[NYCTechNerd]

Doesn't look too bad from the photos.
If you can stand the pressure while breaking them in, they will be like wearing a glove once they mold to your feet.

As an aside, in the mid 1990's we took a trip to Maine and stopped at LL Bean and I purchased a slip on handsewn moccasin. It was not CXL. But it was very tight. I have narrow feet so when I find a shoe that fits, I usually buy it. Anyway, it took me over a year to break those shoes in. I'd get blisters on my heel, etc. Once they were broken in, man they fit like a nice snug glove. No heel slip and really snug on the sides. Last summer I took them to a local cobbler and had new soles put on them. They are still a great fit and a classic shoe.

Stay with yours, they will stretch to match your feet. You'll be glad you did.

Thanks for the response. It's not that they hurt but I am worried they are simply not wide enough and maybe even too short. Just added 2 more pics after you posted. My smaller toes are literally on the sidewall of the shoe which I am not sure is the way they should be for a good fit.

 

[Erikdayo]

It's pretty normal for your pinky toes to touch the side inside a pair of shoes, I believe? I mean I could be wrong, but I never got the impression that every pair of shoes I've ever purchased actually did not fit. That said with your feet in that one picture it looks very sudden rather than gradual. I compared it with some pictures I've posted in this thread previously. Very interesting.

Here's an old one for reference top down. This is 1/2 size down from brannock. 9D instead of 9.5D

 

[Luscombe]

Thanks for the response. It's not that they hurt but I am worried they are simply not wide enough and maybe even too short. Just added 2 more pics after you posted. My smaller toes are literally on the sidewall of the shoe which I am not sure is the way they should be for a good fit.

I see that area and yes your toes are touching and pushing outward. Ultimately, you will have a bit of overhang when broken in. The rest of the shoe will wrap around your foot. If you look at the sides of my shoes above, you can see where my toes push out. For me, I detest shoes loose in width and find them unwearable.

From your top down photo it is hard to tell how much your toes will hang over the edge. On some of the sole options, like the RLH, there is a mid-sole that is much wider than the leather shoe width so when your toe stretches out, it does not hang over the edge of the sole.

From a different perspective, I think these were a crowdfunded shoe for you. That being the case, consider this experience an investment. Don't over think it and wear the shoes all summer long then re-assess their fit when you order your next pair. This is a journey.

 

[Erikdayo]

Rancourt Clymer 2.0 from last week.

A bit torn on whether I’ll keep these or not. They look lovely, of course, but in my efforts to downsize Rancourt ranger mocs are now the only footwear I have more than 1 pair of. Sure the Clymer and Baxter Essex have plenty of different details, but the pattern and last are the same.

 

[NYCTechNerd]

...From a different perspective, I think these were a crowdfunded shoe for you. That being the case, consider this experience an investment. Don't over think it and wear the shoes all summer long then re-assess their fit when you order your next pair. This is a journey.

Thank you and that is the plan of action.

 

[7_rocket]

@Erikdayo
What size are you?

 

[Erikdayo]

@Erikdayo
What size are you?

The shoes are 9D. My brannock size is 9.5D

 

[BAK]

Another day at the office, salt mines, or whatever you want to call it but I am working on breaking-in and stretching my new Pinch Penny loafers. The reason I think I might need a wider size is that one can already see the sides bulging out in the toe box of both shoes. And that is exactly where my foot "flares" and why Ronnie from Moulded Shoe (aka Alden dealer with the most in-stock shoes on the Mofified last) said I am a perfect candidate for the Modified last. Too bad I visited him after I purchased these shoes.

View attachment 1580398


The imprint from my toes is over the stitching and up onto the sidewall of the shoes

View attachment 1580417 View attachment 1580418

There are a number of things to consider, but I'm curious how long it may have been since you previously owned/wore a pair of genuine handsewn loafers, and were they an unlined leather with similar characteristics to Chromexcel (stuffed full of oils, waxes, greases)? I ask because I know you've worn a lot of welted shoes and it's possible you might be bringing welted calfskin fit comparisons/expectations to a handsewn cowhide conversation, where (respectfully) they don't necessarily apply...

Welted shoes are very structured and with a few exceptions the best fit is the initial fit because welted shoes don't do much stretching. Yes, they soften and form to the foot slowly over time, but there's not significant stretching. Some of that is the structure and foundation created from the construction. And likely most of your welted shoes are fully lined calfskin. Calfskin is a tighter grain structure, and when combined with a full lining it doesn't stretch much, so again you want those to fit almost perfect straight out of the box. Your unlined handsewn CXL loafer is not that animal (literally and figuratively). And the soles on your welted shoes are likely more rigid with less bounce than the sole on your Rancourt loafer.

Now consider handsewn construction - handsewns literally wrap around your foot, and by design you want them too. Consider the most simple moccasin you can imagine - it should fit you like a glove initially. It should fit the sides of your foot more closely than a welted shoe should, and your toes should come closer to the end of the shoe, especially if you want to avoid the potential slip of a loafer. You essentially purchased this simple shoe, but with a soft rubber sole attached to the bottom. And this shoe does not have welted structure, it has almost no structure comparatively, so your foot is going to slide and move where it wants to. With the shape and lean of your particular foot, you'll slide over the edge, and that's normal.

Now, consider if you had a larger size. Your foot would be held in place even less, and so it would still slide to that outer edge - maybe more so. It'd change almost nothing except some less restrictive fit initially. But that would ultimately lead to more excessive stretching down the road, and less stability, which potentially causes more issues.

Lastly, you and I have basically the same foot. These are my Rancourt camp mocs (albeit in Buckaroo leather) that I've had about 10 years now (still the original sole!). I got them TTS and wore them comfortably for a little while until they stretched so much I had to add an insole. And they continued to stretch so much I had to add a thicker insole. And they continued to stretch so much further that I finally added a cushioned insole so thick (it was gifted to me) that I'd never been able to use it in any of my shoes previously. They now fit great with socks on... and are still sloppy barefoot. I've been considering a replacement pair at some point because these are getting damn worn now, but no way am I going TTS again. That being said, I don't think the CXL will stretch quite as much as the Buckaroo, but they will still stretch a fair amount.

Spoiler: MY RANCOURTS

They just keep stretching...

Final thought - if your shoes are so damn tight that you couldn't dream of continuing to wear them, yes it's possible Rancourt made a mistake and used a smaller last but stamped them as the size you bought, but that happens almost never. As mentioned previously, you could have them stretched, you could also have Rancourt ease them out a little bit by placing a larger last (whatever size you think would be the improvement) into your shoes and letting them sit awhile, or live with them as your feet are going to stretch those shoes eventually to the size they need to be.

Good luck!

 

[NYCTechNerd]

There are a number of things to consider, but I'm curious how long it may have been since you previously owned/wore a pair of genuine handsewn loafers, and were they an unlined leather with similar characteristics to Chromexcel (stuffed full of oils, waxes, greases)? I ask because I know you've worn a lot of welted shoes and it's possible you might be bringing welted calfskin fit comparisons/expectations to a handsewn cowhide conversation, where (respectfully) they don't necessarily apply...

Welted shoes are very structured and with a few exceptions the best fit is the initial fit because welted shoes don't do much stretching. Yes, they soften and form to the foot slowly over time, but there's not significant stretching. Some of that is the structure and foundation created from the construction. And likely most of your welted shoes are fully lined calfskin. Calfskin is a tighter grain structure, and when combined with a full lining it doesn't stretch much, so again you want those to fit almost perfect straight out of the box. Your unlined handsewn CXL loafer is not that animal (literally and figuratively). And the soles on your welted shoes are likely more rigid with less bounce than the sole on your Rancourt loafer.

Now consider handsewn construction - handsewns literally wrap around your foot, and by design you want them too. Consider the most simple moccasin you can imagine - it should fit you like a glove initially. It should fit the sides of your foot more closely than a welted shoe should, and your toes should come closer to the end of the shoe, especially if you want to avoid the potential slip of a loafer. You essentially purchased this simple shoe, but with a soft rubber sole attached to the bottom. And this shoe does not have welted structure, it has almost no structure comparatively, so your foot is going to slide and move wear it wants to. With the shape and lean of your particular foot, you'll slide over the edge, and that's normal.

Now, consider if you had a larger size. Your foot would be held in place even less, and so it would still slide to that outer edge - maybe more so. It'd change almost nothing except some less restrictive fit initially. But that would ultimately lead to more excessive stretching down the road, and less stability, which potentially causes more issues.

Lastly, you and I have basically the same foot. These are my Rancourt camp mocs (albeit in Buckaroo leather) that I've had about 10 years now (still the original sole!). I got them TTS and wore them comfortably for a little while until they stretched so much I had to add an insole. And they continued to stretch so much I had to add a thicker insole. And they continued to stretch so much further that I finally added a cushioned insole so thick (it was gifted to me) that I'd never been able to use it in any of my shoes previously. They now fit great with socks on... and are still sloppy barefoot. I've been considering a replacement pair at some point because these are getting damn worn now, but no way am I going TTS again. That being said, I don't think the CXL will stretch quite as much as the Buckaroo, but they will still stretch a fair amount.

Spoiler: MY RANCOURTS

View attachment 1580619
View attachment 1580620
View attachment 1580621
They just keep stretching...

Final thought - if your shoes are so damn tight that you couldn't dream of continuing to wear them, yes it's possible Rancourt made a mistake and used a smaller last but stamped them as the size you bought, but that happens almost never. As mentioned previously, you could have them stretched, you could also have Rancourt ease them out a little bit by placing a larger last (whatever size you think would be the improvement) into your shoes and letting them sit awhile, or live with them as your feet are going to stretch those shoes eventually to the size they need to be.

Good luck!

I can't begin to thank you enough for the detailed, informative, and incredibly helpful post so please do not think less of me if my response is not as expansive.

My biggest "take aways" are the pictures and information about stretch/unlined/handsewn because it reminds me of a pair of L.L. Bean Camp Mocs I had 30 years ago. They looked identical and I even kept the laces tied the same way you have them because my girlfriend at the time (now spouse) would not have it any other way but she did grow up in CT. The point is, I purchased my correct shoe size at the time and while they fit, over time they stretched so much they were unwearable. If I went sockless, my feet hurt from all the rubbing because my foot moved around too much. If I wore socks to close the gap, I needed those very heavy weight L.L. Bean wool "boot socks" but then my feet would be too damn hot most of the year. I finally gave up on them and gave them away. And yes, looking back I have never owned a handsewn and/or unlined shoe in at least 30 years.

I am going to stick with it and keep wearing them.

 

[Southwick]

There are a number of things to consider, but I'm curious how long it may have been since you previously owned/wore a pair of genuine handsewn loafers, and were they an unlined leather with similar characteristics to Chromexcel (stuffed full of oils, waxes, greases)? I ask because I know you've worn a lot of welted shoes and it's possible you might be bringing welted calfskin fit comparisons/expectations to a handsewn cowhide conversation, where (respectfully) they don't necessarily apply...

Welted shoes are very structured and with a few exceptions the best fit is the initial fit because welted shoes don't do much stretching. Yes, they soften and form to the foot slowly over time, but there's not significant stretching. Some of that is the structure and foundation created from the construction. And likely most of your welted shoes are fully lined calfskin. Calfskin is a tighter grain structure, and when combined with a full lining it doesn't stretch much, so again you want those to fit almost perfect straight out of the box. Your unlined handsewn CXL loafer is not that animal (literally and figuratively). And the soles on your welted shoes are likely more rigid with less bounce than the sole on your Rancourt loafer.

Now consider handsewn construction - handsewns literally wrap around your foot, and by design you want them too. Consider the most simple moccasin you can imagine - it should fit you like a glove initially. It should fit the sides of your foot more closely than a welted shoe should, and your toes should come closer to the end of the shoe, especially if you want to avoid the potential slip of a loafer. You essentially purchased this simple shoe, but with a soft rubber sole attached to the bottom. And this shoe does not have welted structure, it has almost no structure comparatively, so your foot is going to slide and move wear it wants to. With the shape and lean of your particular foot, you'll slide over the edge, and that's normal.

Now, consider if you had a larger size. Your foot would be held in place even less, and so it would still slide to that outer edge - maybe more so. It'd change almost nothing except some less restrictive fit initially. But that would ultimately lead to more excessive stretching down the road, and less stability, which potentially causes more issues.

Lastly, you and I have basically the same foot. These are my Rancourt camp mocs (albeit in Buckaroo leather) that I've had about 10 years now (still the original sole!). I got them TTS and wore them comfortably for a little while until they stretched so much I had to add an insole. And they continued to stretch so much I had to add a thicker insole. And they continued to stretch so much further that I finally added a cushioned insole so thick (it was gifted to me) that I'd never been able to use it in any of my shoes previously. They now fit great with socks on... and are still sloppy barefoot. I've been considering a replacement pair at some point because these are getting damn worn now, but no way am I going TTS again. That being said, I don't think the CXL will stretch quite as much as the Buckaroo, but they will still stretch a fair amount.

Spoiler: MY RANCOURTS

View attachment 1580619
View attachment 1580620
View attachment 1580621
They just keep stretching...

Final thought - if your shoes are so damn tight that you couldn't dream of continuing to wear them, yes it's possible Rancourt made a mistake and used a smaller last but stamped them as the size you bought, but that happens almost never. As mentioned previously, you could have them stretched, you could also have Rancourt ease them out a little bit by placing a larger last (whatever size you think would be the improvement) into your shoes and letting them sit awhile, or live with them as your feet are going to stretch those shoes eventually to the size they need to be.

Good luck!

Awesome post. Thanks for all of this information.