Pairing oxford shoes with chinos

[dieworkwear]

then you would contend that there exists a range of formality with oxfords? And that some oxfords can be worn with chinos?

We’re not talking about what’s ideal. But terms like incongruent and incoherent have been used to describe this.

I personally don't think oxfords can be worn with chinos, no.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I personally don't think oxfords can be worn with chinos, no.

ok…fair enough.

 

[johng70]

ok…fair enough.

Exactly. @dieworkwear has an opinion. He is entitled to it and I respect his opinion. As I respect others' opinions . Other people on here have opinions that differ from his. I'm not sure why this is so lengthy - we can have different opinions without trying to label one opinion as 'correct' and another as 'wrong'. In the end, an individual who is making the choice can weigh the opinions and hopefully decide for themselves what they want to do and how they want to dress. Given the past year, I'm extremely grateful this is a topic we have the luxury of debating - a real 'first world problem'. Peace out everyone and have a great weekend!

 

[acapaca]

 

[Mr Tickle]

Rules definitely evolve, but you are conflating ideas from different generations and presenting them as all concurrent.

"No brown in Town" has been dead for about 100 years. From Dressing the Man:

"While black dress shoes have always been considered de rigueur for dark dressy suitings, dark brown offers equal refinement, if not superior style. Regardless of their luster, black dress shoes will always lack the antiqued brown's deep patina and changing highlights. Just as any article placed on a polished mahogany tabletop immediately acquires an expensive aura, top-quality brown leather shoes invest all fabrics with an intangible richness.
In 1936, the leather antiquing process was finally refined to the point where it spurred acceptance of the dark brown shoe for dressy worsted wear. [. . .]
The Boston Brahmins have long appreciated the eccentric yet classy habit of mating brown cap toes with navy or charcoal suits. And the Milanese male, considered by present day style arbiters as the most sophisticated dresser in the sock-wearing world, is almost fanatical in favoring brown lace-ups over black. He is vigilant that his saddle-tanned business bench-mades are bone-polished for the week's work, reserving his brown suedes for the more leisurely activities of the weekend."

The fact you think "no brown in town" is a rule prescient to this conversation tells me you must be....I don't know...maybe reading the Gentleman's Gazette or something?

I think the rule "no brown in town" is an English thing and probably refers to the City and West End districts of London - areas that are traditionally just referred to as "town" by professional class people of a certain age who live in London or it's vicinity. So "no brown in town" has never actually been a universal rule - "town" doesn't mean "urban areas", it means specifically the City of London and the West End. To some extent the rule still applies there - if you're going to the City to work in a professional office, you'll be expected to wear a suit in blue, black or grey - brown can be frowned upon. Likewise if you're going to the West End to the ballet, opera or an orchestral performance - some form of entertainment appropriate to the sort of professional classes who made these rules - men would wear black or navy.
I definitely don't think it's ever meant to have been taken as a universal rule for any urban area though.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

View attachment 1614123

looks like a nice way to spend the day.

 

[acapaca]

looks like a nice way to spend the day.

Yes, but imagine how much more cohesive Eric's outfit would have been if he'd only worn the open-laced boots on the floor just next to his. Don't you think that would have added enjoyment to the day?

 

[dieworkwear]

Yes, but imagine how much more cohesive Eric's outfit would have been if he'd only worn the open-laced boots on the floor just next to his. Don't you think that would have added enjoyment to the day?

My man.

 

[Sir Jack II]

I somehow waded through this entire thread, because I find the subject interesting and it concerns me directly: I often wear plain dark-brown oxfords with slacks and sometimes even (I hope you’re sitting down) corduroys with thin treads. I never give them more than a matte shine every few months. I guess I thought (and think?) that the brownness, and paradoxically the plainness, gave the shoes enough informality to justify the choice, but DWW and others with significantly more knowledge than me are making me consider otherwise. (My only ironclad rule would be that black oxfords should only be worn with a suit.)

Those in the oxfords-only-with-suits camp: Would you generally say that your footwear should be as or less formal, if anything, than the rest of your outfit (and never more)? It seems this might be the gist of your view.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for making me second-guess my clothing regimen, DWW.

 

[dieworkwear]

Those in the oxfords-only-with-suits camp: Would you generally say that your footwear should be as or less formal, if anything, than the rest of your outfit (and never more)? It seems this might be the gist of your view.

I think that's a good way to sum up my view.

Voxsartoria has a really good archive of well-dressed men from the 1930s through the '80s. I generally think that's when classic men's style was best expressed (the '70s being the exception, at least if we're talking about classic style). I think it's an exceptionally good resource, partly because it's been curated with an eye for style, and partly because there are so many high-quality, high-resolution photos, which allows you to see the details of the clothes. While I'm not into historical dress, I am very much into the spirit and sensibility of style from those eras. You can see how shoes were worn during those periods when you scroll through his photos. There must be many thousands of images there now, as it's nearly a ten-year-old blog.

voxsartoria

Their vanity is greater than their misery.

voxsartoria.com

 

[BespokeBrooklyn]

I’m following this thread because my office has a business formal dress code, and, as a result, over the years I’ve accumulated a lot of pairs of oxfords — more than I “need,” certainly. I would love to have some of them do double duty with casual outfits, although so far the only pair I’ve regularly worn with less formal outfits are brown suede Allen Edmonds Fifth Avenues.

During a recent sale, I picked up a pair of walnut Barlett oxfords — the “Independence Line” version of the Strand. I plan to wear them with khaki suits, and maybe also when I wear tan or light gray gabardine slacks with a navy jacket and a tie. I already own longwing bluchers in a cooler shade of tan, so the new walnut oxfords may be redundant, but I wear light-colored tailoring often enough in the summer that I think I will give this warmer-toned pair some wear, as well.

I'm amazed this is still going.

If fairly sure it was clearly stated way back on page 5 that while you can wear oxfords without a suit they are almost never the best option.

This shouldn't even be controversial, I just think people are butt hurt because they realize they have spent too much on oxfords and not enough on loafers / chukas / derbies.

 

[emptym]

Those in the oxfords-only-with-suits camp: Would you generally say that your footwear should be as or less formal, if anything, than the rest of your outfit (and never more)?

I wouldn't say so, necessarily, as I'd wear jeans w/ loafers, chukkas, or derbies.
"Wales" not "treads" for corduroy.

 

[Sir Jack II]

I wouldn't say so, necessarily, as I'd wear jeans w/ loafers, chukkas, or derbies.
"Wales" not "treads" for corduroy.

Good point.

Wales seems a little precious to me, but thanks, it's nice to know the specialized term for it. Maybe cords is sufficient.

 

[c0de]

I think that's a good way to sum up my view.

Voxsartoria has a really good archive of well-dressed men from the 1930s through the '80s. I generally think that's when classic men's style was best expressed (the '70s being the exception, at least if we're talking about classic style). I think it's an exceptionally good resource, partly because it's been curated with an eye for style, and partly because there are so many high-quality, high-resolution photos, which allows you to see the details of the clothes. While I'm not into historical dress, I am very much into the spirit and sensibility of style from those eras. You can see how shoes were worn during those periods when you scroll through his photos. There must be many thousands of images there now, as it's nearly a ten-year-old blog.

voxsartoria

Their vanity is greater than their misery.

voxsartoria.com

This is an amazing resource! Thank you for sharing!

 

[TheChihuahua]

I'm amazed this is still going.

If fairly sure it was clearly stated way back on page 5 that while you can wear oxfords without a suit they are almost never the best option.

This shouldn't even be controversial, I just think people are butt hurt because they realize they have spent too much on oxfords and not enough on loafers / chukas / derbies.

here is the problem with this position:
For cotton khakis and whatever, sure, most oxfords are too dressy.

but for that more “biz caj +” look that other advocate (smart casual, sports coat, suit with no tie look), well...

1. Loafers are great. And some loafers dress up very nicely. But if all you wear are loafers, you become loafers guy. Which can be viewed as a bit too caj for it to be one’s every day thing.

2. Chukka boots are very location/geographic/season driven. Not going to wear chukka boots in the middle of the summer or warmer weather climates.

3. If you wear derbies all the time, people are going to think you have foot problems. Like you are one step away from orthopedic shoes. a general reaction will be:
“He dresses well, but too bad he has that foot problem so he has to wear those ugly shoes”

as an opinion, oxfords generally work well with suits. But as a rule, oxfords can also dress up those “Biz Caj Plus” looks and take them from a sort of uninspired/lazy look and dress the entire outfit up to a more professional/respectable look.