jonathanS
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Why that guy is considered a sartorial expert.... often leaves me perplexed.
There are firms on savile row, which leave me perplexed, even! And other tailors too! I remember having a conversation with a British Bespoke tailor (well-known & respected on these forums) I met at a bar & we were talking about a historic house - which he heard they were so busy, they outsourced their cutting!
But thats what happens when you commercialize bespoke!
I guess we do live in a new age, where a man can get pregnant, so why not? Here's an interesting article that traces the history of the word "bespoke": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7463790.stm
Attached is Michael Alden's statements on London Lounge on what he means by bespoke, which, I believe, is interesting.
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There has been a question regarding bespoke, MTM and special orders and I thought it well to repost one of the original LL posts on the subject:
"Let's Define Bespoke and Start From There"
I was asked recently to define the term "bespoke" by a reader on
a forum where I had answered a question regarding Mariano
Rubinacci. It so happens that in my limited time visiting various dressing boards, I have seen the term "bespoke" used to describe just about
any kind of garment making that involves taking a measurement. And
yet “bespoke” has a very precise meaning. I have also noticed, and
this is common because marketers purposely misuse terms to try and
dupe potential clients, that bespoke, and MTM are used almost as
synonyms.
I would like to use the process of making a "bespoke" shirt as a way
to describe what is "bespoke" and what is "besmoke."
My shirtmaker starts by taking my measurements. Okay so far so good,
everyone takes measurements. He may ask to see me wearing another
bespoke shirt as well on my first visit to see if there are any
obvious problems. From the measurements, he will draw and cut a
first pattern of my shirt. Here we enter into the crux of the
matter. He does not use a generic pattern, or one spit out of a computer CAD CAM program and then do alterations
(MTM)! He draws and cuts a custom pattern just like your tailor does to make you a suit.
From the first draft pattern, he will cut a basted trial shirt in muslin
and there will be a first fitting. Any errors or changes are noted
and fixed on the spot with a little cutting and sewing.
Then, if necessary, a second basted trial shirt in muslin will
be made and fitted. Then the shirtmaker will take that second basted
shirt perfected from two fittings and re-cut a new and final version
of the pattern. From this pattern, he will cut and make the first
shirt. If there are changes after fitting the first shirt, then once
again, he will go back to the pattern and make the required changes. But this is
relatively rare at this stage, if the shirtmaker is an expert or unless, like yours truly, you have a very difficult figure to fit.
The process of making a bespoke shirt is a long one. The shirtmaker works
for many many hours before cutting the first shirt. The materials
used should be first rate. The fit should be first rate.
If you have not gone through the above process to have your shirt
made, then you do not have a "bespoke" shirt on your back. You may
very well have a nice shirt on your back, but it is not
a "bespoke" shirt. It is an MTM shirt.
The cost of a bespoke shirt is high, normally 300 to 700 euros. But
if you keep extra material for new collars and cuffs, then your
shirt will last indefinitely. Some of mine are now twenty-five years
old and still look great. So, in the long run, these shirts are not
as expensive as they seem.
I have used "bespoke" shirts as an example of what true
handcraftsmanship is. A similar process will hold true if you are
making suits, overcoats, pajamas or boxer shorts. You see, the sartorial arts are not as
mysterious as they seem to be or as serious.
This is a consumer alert as well. If you are going to pay "bespoke"
prices then please be kind enough to demand "bespoke" services. One
of the key reasons for the decline in the number of fine tailors is
the lack of demanding clients. The more you know, the more you
expect, the more you take control of the process, and the better
the final product will be for you and your maker. And the more
pressure you put on for excellence, the more the artisans will have
to perfect their skills, and everyone benefits from this.
In the future, a suggestion would be to try and use the
word "bespoke" only when referring to the above process so we can
all be talking about the same thing and not a mish mash. If you have
a MTM or RTW, there is no shame. Some are very good. But if
everything is "bespoke" then the word starts to lose its meaning and
communication becomes difficult at best.
If you are using a MTM provider there are ways for you to get the
most from your experience and that maybe should be the subject of
another post. But don't let your ego or the marketing kings dupe you
into thinking that your MTM is traditional bespoke.
CheersAgreed, but the line between MTM and bespoke is apparently so often blurred, that even enthusiasts are not sure!
For example, it always perplexed me when someone said their neckties were bespoke (and indeed craftsman advertised bespoke neckties); and I always considered, with shirtmakers who deliver a "Bespoke" shirt straight to finish, are they really bespoke? I never considered the neckties bespoke, although, technically MTO neckties are "bespoke."
But shirtmakers are more interesting, especially if there are fitting for the initial shirt.
Bespoke was an english word - italians called it "su misura" & adopted the word bespoke to differentiate themselves from the MTM houses, so the question isn't what does "bespoke" mean, but what does "bespoke" mean to enthusiasts? Under the mere english definition of bespoke, that could mean MTM in a factory in China, no?
Bespoke has become such a commercialized word, perhaps there is one corner of the internet where it could mean a proper, traditionally made garment to the levels of bespoke as it traditionally was?
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