OFFICIAL Simon Crompton thread (PermanentStyle.com)

[Treble]

I'm sure he has made clear items were gifted before.

 

[JibranK]

For the superfans, Simon is selling a 1990s Eddie Bauer mall leather jacket that likely retailed for $100 claiming an original MSRP of £1500 that he's discounted to £150.

(For some background: Langlitz which even then was expensive as leather jackets went, charged $575 for a fully custom jacket in the 90s. Absolutely no way Eddie Bauer was selling this jacket for $3000. In fact if I'm remembering correctly £1500 would probably comfortably get you a suit from A&S at the time, considering they were about £2500 in 2008).

 

[JibranK]

Holy crap, I don't know how I missed it, but there is a hilarious article length comment on Simon's blog from his cutter at Huntsman that lays the whole Simon farce out for what it is. Simon breathlessly replies. It's great stuff!

Dear Simon

It has been brought to my attention by my clients and colleagues on Savile Row that you have made several negative remarks about me on your website relating to a shooting suit that was made for you during my time as the senior cutter at Huntsman. Your comments, not your original article, that actually complimented your experience, are sadly devoid of technical accuracy and instead offer misleading information.

For the avoidance of doubt and clarity, when you were given the free suit back in 2010 you were specifically and correctly asked by myself, on more than one occasion in the presence of Peter Smith, the general manager and Jonnie Alan the sales manager, if you would be using the garment for shooting. The role of the cutter is to gather as much information as he can prior to the commencement of cutting a suit, especially a shooting suit. You responded to say you would indeed be using the suit for shooting. A shooting suit is a highly technical, functioning, garment and my record for cutting them is exemplary. Additionally the tailor who made the piece is one of the best on Savile Row and is a highly respected individual.

In relation to the check at the half belt that didn’t match, you actually correctly pointed out the following in your original article, dated 30th March 2011.

“On stock examples of this cloth in the Huntsman shop the collar matches but the belt does not – indeed, the difference at the belt is even more pronounced than on my version, as they are made with a greater drop between chest and waist”.

Yet you unfortunately persisted with the following remark at a later date on your website?

“I finally had my Huntsman jacket fixed last week, after David Ward had failed to match the checks originally, either at the belt or collar”.

In spite of your own observations about (no) half belts matching on stock items in the front shop at Huntsman, you continued in making false and inaccurate remarks about my failure to attend to this aspect of the shooting jacket. For the sake of clarity to you and your readers, it is impossible to match a half belt with a bold check at the small of the back when a centre seem is present, as the suppression in the centre back seam distorts the pattern. You might get away with adding a seam in the belt or shrinking or stretching the cloth, but that’s not the correct way of doing things on Savile Row. That’s factual information.

During the fittings you commented on several occasions that you additionally wanted shape to be present in the garment. Therefore, under your instruction, the garment was also cut with the Huntsman silhouette for your aesthetic requirements. This is something rarely asked by a client intending to use such a garment for the purposes of shooting. Your comments in the same original article corroborate my execution of your style requests and even reference the mismatch of the check.

“It was certainly right to improve the fit at the expense of the pattern matching. The fit of a bespoke jacket should always be the priority, and I think you can see from the clean finish to the back that the fit was very good”.

Regarding the collar not fitting. You were informed by me during the final fitting, that as you had clarified your intent to actually shoot with the suit and felt you wanted a slightly bigger cross back, I explained I would need to let out the centre back to solve this, rather than cut a new back, which we would normally do for a paying client if requested. Therefore, the check on the top collar and back neck were slightly out to accommodate this. You then used my words as part of your article as if to imply it was your feedback.

“The only way to avoid this difference would be to cut an entirely new back, which perhaps David could have done”.

There are many nuances of a shooting garments aesthetic and fit that are sometimes overlooked to enhance functionality when used in synergy with a loaded rifle. When a client has paid in excess of a £100,000 for a gun at Purdy’s or Boss, they value function over style and shooting suits are fitted accordingly. Therefore, It was decided by the then owners of Huntsman that we would not cut a new back to a free suit that would normally cost close to £10,000 on completion. If you felt that this was unfair then it would have been maybe constructive if you had made your reservations with the Huntsman management, who also felt that I had carried out my work to my usual exceptional standards. The photographs of the finished suit in your original article show this. The fact that you have then chosen to personally defame my reputation years later with spurious wording due to their inaccuracies, is, I feel, incredibly poor.

As recently as April 2016 you offered the following in response to someone on your forum asking what I was like, but instead your reply referenced the shooting jacket once again?

“I haven’t seen him for years, but I can’t really recommend him given his cutting of my Huntsman tweed jacket (see posts on that)”.

I’m sure you are aware of the problems the industry has in trying to keep traditional tailors within its boundaries and the natural environment of Savile Row. Therefore, the presence of myself as an independent tailor, who is part of an unnoticeable trend at the moment, should be endorsed rather referred to with specious remarks. It is also a shame that you have offered your inaccuracies on a site that is noted as a resource for sound information about menswear. You have noted there were a few things that needed looking at on one of the gun pleats. As you are aware, with every bespoke order a client is encouraged to wear a garment and bring it back if need be. Your experience of bringing the garment back to Huntsman for tweaking at a later date was the norm, rather than the exception. My contact details are published online and I would have been happy to discuss the issues with you over a coffee (or something stronger), which might have helped to resolve or maybe even enhance your review.

Respectfully

David Ward

From the opening line, it seems Simon is not well-liked on the Row. Unfortunate that it took them this many years and probably a hundred thousand quid in free clothing before they realised though. Also shows how fundamentally clueless he is about this stuff. Claiming it's going to be his actual hunting jacket, so he needs full range of movement (maybe to save face rather than look like a LARPer), until he finds out that a functional shooting jacket doesn't look as shaped so he demands that they make it super shape, and then gets annoyed that it is not lined up in a way that would actually be impossible. Pure gold.

David Ward is now independent. On Instagram as well. Reading this would have made me place an order with him if I still lived in London!

 

[Texasmade]

For the superfans, Simon is selling a 1990s Eddie Bauer mall leather jacket that likely retailed for $100 claiming an original MSRP of £1500 that he's discounted to £150.

(For some background: Langlitz which even then was expensive as leather jackets went, charged $575 for a fully custom jacket in the 90s. Absolutely no way Eddie Bauer was selling this jacket for $3000. In fact if I'm remembering correctly £1500 would probably comfortably get you a suit from A&S at the time, considering they were about £2500 in 2008).

My mom bought me a black lamb skin leather jacket from EB back in like 2001 before I went off to college. It was like $150 (a lot of money at the time).

 

[Mirage-]

Holy crap, I don't know how I missed it, but there is a hilarious article length comment on Simon's blog from his cutter at Huntsman that lays the whole Simon farce out for what it is. Simon breathlessly replies. It's great stuff!



From the opening line, it seems Simon is not well-liked on the Row. Unfortunate that it took them this many years and probably a hundred thousand quid in free clothing before they realised though. Also shows how fundamentally clueless he is about this stuff. Claiming it's going to be his actual hunting jacket, so he needs full range of movement (maybe to save face rather than look like a LARPer), until he finds out that a functional shooting jacket doesn't look as shaped so he demands that they make it super shape, and then gets annoyed that it is not lined up in a way that would actually be impossible. Pure gold.

David Ward is now independent. On Instagram as well. Reading this would have made me place an order with him if I still lived in London!

I can't help but wonder whether Simon meant "shooting" as "photo shooting", that would be some hilarious miscommunication.

That being said, you also treat Ward's words as gospel. I think it's clear there was some kind of miscommunication in that particular example and I wouldn't really make conclusive judgements on either involved person from that single unfortunate episode many years ago, although it could have probably been handled better. For example, Simon could have noted that the decision was made not to recut the back for this instance but that for a paying customer, they would have (or so they claim, anyway - I don't fully believe unbacked claims like those tbh. In fact I think it's more likely tailors are more accommodating of him than of nobodies that don't have such an online presence).

Also, you people seem to believe him getting free clothes makes him biased, but I actually kind of agree with him that it does not: he already has so much stuff that he really really doesn't need free stuff. What he needs is ideas for content. Sure, a new suit from tailor X is an article or two, but apparently he can make 10 articles out of every single Rubato release and he doesn't even need them to gift him anything for that.
What I think might be the actual problem in bias, instead, is that he seems to be writing more and more (in recent times) about the same few brands (again, first and foremost, Rubato) which at times seems to be more out of liking the people involved rather than particular merit of the clothes.
In other words, at times reading PS has started to feel like reading an episode out of "Tales from Simon's menswear circle".

 

[JibranK]

That being said, you also treat Ward's words as gospel. I think it's clear there was some kind of miscommunication in that particular example and I wouldn't really make conclusive judgements on either involved person from that single unfortunate episode many years ago, although it could have probably been handled better. For example, Simon could have noted that the decision was made not to recut the back for this instance but that for a paying customer, they would have (or so they claim, anyway - I don't fully believe unbacked claims like those tbh. In fact I think it's more likely tailors are more accommodating of him than of nobodies that don't have such an online presence).

Simon basically affirms what Ward says except for the shooting part and I just don’t believe that Ward and both Huntsman employees mistakenly noted that Crompton claimed he wanted to shoot a gun in it.

Also, you people seem to believe him getting free clothes makes him biased, but I actually kind of agree with him that it does not: he already has so much stuff that he really really doesn't need free stuff. What he needs is ideas for content. Sure, a new suit from tailor X is an article or two, but apparently he can make 10 articles out of every single Rubato release and he doesn't even need them to gift him anything for that.

I disagree with your argument but it actually doesn’t apply here. His Huntsman was gifted to him at a time when by his own admission he could not afford the Row. So within weeks he went from saying he’d need triple the salary to try a Row firm to having A&S and Huntsman both giving him a three piece.

EDIT: And I just saw you joined in 2021. That’s not a dig but does confirm my theory.

 

[lockstock]

Holy crap, I don't know how I missed it, but there is a hilarious article length comment on Simon's blog from his cutter at Huntsman that lays the whole Simon farce out for what it is. Simon breathlessly replies. It's great stuff!



From the opening line, it seems Simon is not well-liked on the Row. Unfortunate that it took them this many years and probably a hundred thousand quid in free clothing before they realised though. Also shows how fundamentally clueless he is about this stuff. Claiming it's going to be his actual hunting jacket, so he needs full range of movement (maybe to save face rather than look like a LARPer), until he finds out that a functional shooting jacket doesn't look as shaped so he demands that they make it super shape, and then gets annoyed that it is not lined up in a way that would actually be impossible. Pure gold.

David Ward is now independent. On Instagram as well. Reading this would have made me place an order with him if I still lived in London!

Man, this comment sure cuts hard, seems Simon shot himself in the foot there.

 

[Mirage-]

I disagree with your argument but it actually doesn’t apply here. His Huntsman was gifted to him at a time when by his own admission he could not afford the Row. So within weeks he went from saying he’d need triple the salary to try a Row firm to having A&S and Huntsman both giving him a three piece.

Fair point, except by this very logic, then he should have been biased towards the suit he was getting for free, rather than against. It seems to me that you are pushing against your own point here, unless you mean to imply that not getting also the free recut turned him off? But I think it would turn off anyone, including and in fact much more if they had paid out of pocket. In that situation of being lucky to get it for free, as you say, I think it would have been an incentive not to make a big deal out of it and scare other potential tailoring house willing to make him more free suits that he at the time couldn't afford.

EDIT: And I just saw you joined in 2021. That’s not a dig but does confirm my theory.

? How is this relevant?

 

[aristoi bcn]

 

[single_origin]

Also, you people seem to believe him getting free clothes makes him biased, but I actually kind of agree with him that it does not: he already has so much stuff that he really really doesn't need free stuff. What he needs is ideas for content. Sure, a new suit from tailor X is an article or two, but apparently he can make 10 articles out of every single Rubato release and he doesn't even need them to gift him anything for that.

Nope. The problem is the lack of upfront disclosure on each "review" as to whether a product was free or not, whether the brand had a say in the content or not, which falls short of the standards that even the amateur Youtubers can meet. This then causes the more naive readers to think he's giving more credible and objective advice than he actually is.

I agree he needs ideas for content. This actually gives rise to the bias inherent in the influencer model: the content is provided for free to readers, hence he needs to be friendly with various industry figures (i.e sellers) so they can help him come up with content. This could be products for review, access, or merchandise collabs (PS x XYZ). If Rubato, Armoury, or whoever else do something questionable, you're more likely to find Simon silent rather than critical, that's for sure.

You also see this happen all the time in the watch youtuber space. Amateur youtuber starts off authentically sharing their passions and criticisms with their small audience. They get big and get attention from brands, get invited to brand or industry events, then become nothing more than a PR mouthpiece from brands. Examples from the watch scene, e.g. Adrian Barker, Teddy Baldassarre (the latter being a particularly extreme example as he went from doing watch reviews to becoming an AD, so his content became very sales-focused).

 

[Thin White Duke]

Man, this comment sure cuts hard, seems Simon shot himself in the foot there.

Yeah - I wonder if he was wearing his shooting jacket when he shot himself!

 

[JibranK]

Fair point, except by this very logic, then he should have been biased towards the suit he was getting for free, rather than against. It seems to me that you are pushing against your own point here, unless you mean to imply that not getting also the free recut turned him off? But I think it would turn off anyone, including and in fact much more if they had paid out of pocket. In that situation of being lucky to get it for free, as you say, I think it would have been an incentive not to make a big deal out of it and scare other potential tailoring house willing to make him more free suits that he at the time couldn't afford.

I wonder if we're talking past each other because I'm not talking about bias here. His advertorials for new brands, his past advertorial for Suit Supply, etc, those perhaps fall into that category.

I'm referring to the fact that the sudden free suits from the biggest names on the Row, while he still clearly knew very little about tailored clothing, sort of catapulted him to "expert" (when before--and for the better--his blog was largely about putting together a good wardrobe, finding good affordable bespoke tailors, etc) in an unearned way. Like Simon can't really speak to the value proposition of ordering an odd jacket or a three piece or a two piece... because he's comped all of these things by the tailoring houses.

This isn't irrelevant. When people like manton, vox, foo, dieworkwear, matt, etc in the past here would post long threads and topics (dwarfing any Simon post for useful information, no less) on menswear it was grounded in real experience. Like Manton talking about how ideally he would do one thing but he doesn't because it would require ordering additional trousers which wouldn't be worth the expense. Yeah these people have comfortable jobs but there are still very reasonable natural limits that come into play.

Simon himself said shortly before the free A&S and Huntsman three piece suits that he'd like to shop on the row but that would require 3x the salary. So it would have demanded 3x the salary for a couple of suits a year--yet he instantly went to basically a suit a month from the Row. The issue at play isn't "Oh Simon got free stuff" (a bad idea though I think it was for the firms); it's that this means he fundamentally does not really understand how this stuff works from the buyer side or from the tailoring firm side, because it is this extremely different setup.

 

[Thin White Duke]

I was only ever an occasional viewer not a devotee, but wasn’t there a period when he seemed to completely disdain Savile Row / UK based tailors in favour of European (Italian) houses?
Was that because he’d exhausted the Row or because of experiences highlighted above?

I think for me and perhaps for many others his site jumped the shark with an entry entitled something like ‘building a budget wardrobe’ with suggestions costing in the thousands.

 

[comrade]

I was only ever an occasional viewer not a devotee, but wasn’t there a period when he seemed to completely disdain Savile Row / UK based tailors in favour of European (Italian) houses?
Was that because he’d exhausted the Row or because of experiences highlighted above?

I think for me and perhaps for many others his site jumped the shark with an entry entitled something like ‘building a budget wardrobe’ with suggestions costing in the thousands.

https://rodsmodblog.wordpress.com/

What's the relavance of this?

 

[Mirage-]

I wonder if we're talking past each other because I'm not talking about bias here. His advertorials for new brands, his past advertorial for Suit Supply, etc, those perhaps fall into that category. [...]

I think for me and perhaps for many others his site jumped the shark with an entry entitled something like ‘building a budget wardrobe’ with suggestions costing in the thousands.

Well, I've read many claims in this thread, many talking about a supposed lack of expertise and knowledge, many talking about bias because he gets free stuff. If you are talking about his concept of what is good value, then yes we were talking past each other.
His definition of good value is basically alien to most people (and certainly not mine), but I think reading PS generally requires one to understand Simon is writing about top-of-the-line, near-luxury clothes (where by real luxury goods I consider those that make exclusivity per-se a good chunk of the product's worth, rather than merely pursuing excellence - obviously yes the definition isn't clear-cut).
Sure, sometimes there are egregious outliers which feel ludicrous to most and in fact even "not particularly good value" to him (e.g. the infamous Liverano coat), but we know that by now.

For the record, I own a PS donegal, which is by far the most I've spent on clothes, but also still routinely wear some pairs of "vintage fit" chinos from uniqlo, which were a godsend after literally months spent wading through elasticated super-tapered low-waisted chinos which completely flooded the market 10 years ago or so. I and some other readers even suggested him to consider them in his series, which he did, but in the end concluded they had a nice cut but the quality of the cotton wasn't good enough for his standard (not very surprising given the price) and decided they weren't worth an article.
I wear the chinos much more frequently than the coat (also because of the weather being ever warmer unfortunately), but I certainly love my donegal more than the chinos, even though they are far far better value by any rational account.
I don't currently feel like replacing them with 3-400€ chinos made from some obscure japanese cotton like most products shown by Simon in that area are, but in the future, I may or may not find myself at a point where I think I can make such a purchase without giving up anything.