Officewear dress shoes - Oxfords not brogues? (London)

[CommentatorRuncible]

Hello, first post here so hope it's in the right place.

I'll be starting by first proper job soon which, most of the time, is in a provincial town where I've been told I don't need to dress "that smart". I'd appreciate any business casual advice but think I'm pretty set on that.

However, I will be heading to London fairly regularly and am in need of smart black shoes. What are the rules here? What are people's preferences? Are brogues too informal or do you think they add a little bit of character? Also, what's the deal with polished leather - does that mean cheaper and worse quality leather?

Cheers.

 

[jeremygo]

Derek Guy wrote a great piece a few years ago on business casual that is worth a read: https://putthison.com/how-to-do-business-casual-without-looking-like-a/

Re: black dress shoes - it really depends on what you're wearing them with. If you're going to be wearing conservative business dress probably safest to go with classic cap toe oxfords.

That said, these days a lot of folks will likely not notice the details and just see "black leather shoes." I'm in NYC though and a lot men in office jobs wear lululemon pants and cole haan dress sneakers - maybe London is more stringent here.

 

[CommentatorRuncible]

Derek Guy wrote a great piece a few years ago on business casual that is worth a read: https://putthison.com/how-to-do-business-casual-without-looking-like-a/

Re: black dress shoes - it really depends on what you're wearing them with. If you're going to be wearing conservative business dress probably safest to go with classic cap toe oxfords.

That said, these days a lot of folks will likely not notice the details and just see "black leather shoes." I'm in NYC though and a lot men in office jobs wear lululemon pants and cole haan dress sneakers - maybe London is more stringent here.

Thank you for the link.

I suppose that's what I'm asking really. 1) do people generally notice? (assume not) however: 2) do YOU notice? Would you think anything in particular for brogues, of whatever variant, or plan Oxfords, or Derbys, etc?

 

[jeremygo]

I'd say:

1. No, probably not - unless your bosses are real sticklers for this sort of thing.

2. I would prefer black or dark brown cap toe oxfords with conservative business dress (navy/grey worsted suits), but if you're going with sport coats with odd trousers that opens the door to a whole other world of opportunities, but dark brown derbys are probably the safest choice. I'm not super into full brogues personally, but I do have a pair of mahogany Allen Edmond 5th Aves that have a bit of brogue detailing around the cap-toe. I think they look nice!

 

[Thin White Duke]

PS whoever came up with the “oxfords not brogues” line for the Kingman film exposed his ignorance as oxfords can be and often are brogues, the two are by no means mutually exclusive!

 

[JohnMRobie]

PS whoever came up with the “oxfords not brogues” line for the Kingman film exposed his ignorance as oxfords can be and often are brogues, the two are by no means mutually exclusive!

I suppose if it were written and delivered the way you wrote it then yes, that would be the case but “oxfords; not brogues” is a perfectly coherent bit of guidance and in line with the pause in how the line is delivered by Harry.

 

[Mute]

I suppose if it were written and delivered the way you wrote it then yes, that would be the case but “oxfords; not brogues” is a perfectly coherent bit of guidance and in line with the pause in how the line is delivered by Harry.

Except, later in the movie, Harry explains that an oxford is a shoe with closed lacing and therefore the wrong assumption, from anyone listening, that a brogue would be an open laced shoe.

As for the OPs question, I don't know about the UK, but I'd say that in the U.S. 99%+ of the populace wouldn't know the difference or what is considered acceptable convention for various types of dress shoes.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Except, later in the movie, Harry explains that an oxford is a shoe with closed lacing and therefore the wrong assumption, from anyone listening, that a brogue would be an open laced shoe.

As for the OPs question, I don't know about the UK, but I'd say that in the U.S. 99%+ of the populace wouldn't know the difference or what is considered acceptable convention for various types of dress shoes.

People making the wrong assumption doesn’t mean the advice is wrong though. From that scene - Not a derby in sight. Oxfords; not brogues.

 

[Mute]

People making the wrong assumption doesn’t mean the advice is wrong though. From that scene - Not a derby in sight. Oxfords; not brogues. View attachment 2111359

No one said the advice was wrong but poorly worded. For someone who doesn't understand the difference, why would they not assume that brogue would therefore mean a derby given the explanation as present in that scene?

 

[JFWR]

Hello, first post here so hope it's in the right place.

I'll be starting by first proper job soon which, most of the time, is in a provincial town where I've been told I don't need to dress "that smart". I'd appreciate any business casual advice but think I'm pretty set on that.

However, I will be heading to London fairly regularly and am in need of smart black shoes. What are the rules here? What are people's preferences? Are brogues too informal or do you think they add a little bit of character? Also, what's the deal with polished leather - does that mean cheaper and worse quality leather?

Cheers.

I am not that experienced in respect to expectations in London. I've heard (and I cannot attest) that certain industries (such as banking and the law) are quite conservative in the City of London and would more or less expect you just to wear black cap toed oxfords. So, I would say this: If you bought a pair of black, cap toed oxfords you probably won't go wrong. They pair great with grey and blue suits, which I imagine are going to be your major wardrobe choice if you are going to work in a formal business environment.

If, in contrast, you are going to be more along the lines of business casual or not quite as straight laced, brogues could work, but I'd check the atmosphere first.

If you were asking in the American context, I'd say there'd be no reason not to wear a nice pair of brogued dress shoes in almost any business context, as Americans have historically worn brogues with suits just fine.

 

[Sirguywhosmiles]

Except, later in the movie, Harry explains that an oxford is a shoe with closed lacing and therefore the wrong assumption, from anyone listening, that a brogue would be an open laced shoe.

I think he actually says an oxford is a "shoe with open lacing."
I am sure both Matthew Vaughn and Colin Firth would know this is wrong so i assume it was a mistake that sipped in due to rushing in filming and/or editing.

(Just watched it on youtube; also has "this additional decorative piece is called broguing".)