new Yoox codes and sales - post them here

[long_knives]

The main yoox site does not compete with net-a-porter or mr porter. Two totally different business models. It would make no sense for the yoox site to change anything in favour of a net-a-porter model. Yoox is the only profitable one of the two businesses.

 

[harlemriver]

It would be highly unlikely for YOOX to change their business model in this way. Keep in mind that YOOX did an all-share purchase of NAP from Richemont - not the other way around. YOOX bought NAP; Federico Marchetti will be the CEO and the ultimate decision maker.

YOOX has been profitable - NAP has not. What will probably happen is that they will create purchasing, warehouse, tech and logistical efficiencies to realize gains. The NAP business will be reviewed in hopes of earning a profit.


Further, the business models are different. YOOX is off-season while NAP/MrPorter/TheCorner are all in-season. The overlap would be between NAP/MrP/TheCorner - I suppose there could be consolidation there, but the YOOX main site is a beast of its own. If anything, you will probably see more merchandise on YOOX coming straight from the NAP group now.

With regard to clothing pricing, YOOX is in the game to make money and they will price accordingly. A company has to provide ROI for shareholders, fund future growth and have a healthy balance sheet to be a viable contender. The lack of additional price drops are probably natural fallout from the fact that we are further and further away from the dark valley of the 2008 market crash so there is less merchandise to be resold and rock bottom prices. Consumers lavished those additional discounts, but that does not mean it was a new normal.

That being said, the overwhelming majority of items, ~70% is my guess, are or will be priced favorably and below what you might would have gotten from a mainline store. The problem is that YOOX shoppers behave like entitled treasure hunters - i.e. "Why is this Zegna blazer with an original MSRP $3500 not going for $90 bucks yet?". That logic is somewhat obnoxious. Yes, great deals are to be had and yes we all love a deal so good we consider it a steal. However, just because the price is higher than you 'think' you should pay does not mean that you are not receiving an incredible value at a fair price.

It's all relative and should be put in perspective.

 

[super1flavor]

I don't know about Ebay that much anymore either. I purchase a Tumi briefcase 50% off and it was such a gem of a find. I lucked out since the seller seemed to have something off on the listing as it was only coming up in one particular search and not via the conventional wording, etc. Had been on site 2 months and I grabbed it. Point being, I've only sold 1 or 2 things on Ebay this year and it's just slowed to a snails pace. I don't how many people are really buying from Yoox to resell on Ebay. Buyers seem to have almost evaporated altogether on Ebay. I would love to see some stats on this. It's definitely not a good time to be a seller on Ebay. To the point that I took all the cheaper stuff off (less than $50-$100) and just finally wound up donating much of it. The cheaper stuff just wasn't moving at all, which is odd. I had a Zanone sweater on there for $95.00 ($395 sweater) with "make an offer" and I received one offer for $30 and wound up keeping it.

It seems to me we are witnessing seismic shifts with internet buying and I am 100% absolutely convinced, that some guys, have buyers fatigue. I think I do at times these days. The market is flooded with options and product. Point in case; about 4 or 5 years ago, I came across a brand called Aspesi (now very well known). It was almost impossible to find any outwear pieces in NYC or the net. Aspesi launched their e-commerce site and I bought a jacket full price and paid the tariff - total $800. Barneys had a few pieces on their floor. Now 4 years later, there are probably 40-50 jackets for sale on Ebay and they can be found in about 12 different online locations. This further proves my point of how valuable Yoox is in the mens clothing market. We are flooded with inventory and Yoox is a repository for this and catering to many men (who are frugal when it comes to clothing), changing anything with the model (making it more Mr. Porterish) will most likely be financial suicide since at some point, that inventory will back up too.

 

[super1flavor]

I've come close on a couple items and I did buy a Zanone polo like that, since it was the last one, but I have a few things that appear to have multiples, so I am waiting it out.

 

[super1flavor]

 

[super1flavor]

It would be highly unlikely for YOOX to change their business model in this way. Keep in mind that YOOX did an all-share purchase of NAP from Richemont - not the other way around. YOOX bought NAP; Federico Marchetti will be the CEO and the ultimate decision maker.

YOOX has been profitable - NAP has not. What will probably happen is that they will create purchasing, warehouse, tech and logistical efficiencies to realize gains. The NAP business will be reviewed in hopes of earning a profit.


Further, the business models are different. YOOX is off-season while NAP/MrPorter/TheCorner are all in-season. The overlap would be between NAP/MrP/TheCorner - I suppose there could be consolidation there, but the YOOX main site is a beast of its own. If anything, you will probably see more merchandise on YOOX coming straight from the NAP group now.

With regard to clothing pricing, YOOX is in the game to make money and they will price accordingly. A company has to provide ROI for shareholders, fund future growth and have a healthy balance sheet to be a viable contender. The lack of additional price drops are probably natural fallout from the fact that we are further and further away from the dark valley of the 2008 market crash so there is less merchandise to be resold and rock bottom prices. Consumers lavished those additional discounts, but that does not mean it was a new normal.

That being said, the overwhelming majority of items, ~70% is my guess, are or will be priced favorably and below what you might would have gotten from a mainline store. The problem is that YOOX shoppers behave like entitled treasure hunters - i.e. "Why is this Zegna blazer with an original MSRP $3500 not going for $90 bucks yet?". That logic is somewhat obnoxious. Yes, great deals are to be had and yes we all love a deal so good we consider it a steal. However, just because the price is higher than you 'think' you should pay does not mean that you are not receiving an incredible value at a fair price.

It's all relative and should be put in perspective.

All good and accurate points.

 

[StockwellDay]

I don't know about Ebay that much anymore either. I purchase a Tumi briefcase 50% off and it was such a gem of a find. I lucked out since the seller seemed to have something off on the listing as it was only coming up in one particular search and not via the conventional wording, etc. Had been on site 2 months and I grabbed it. Point being, I've only sold 1 or 2 things on Ebay this year and it's just slowed to a snails pace. I don't how many people are really buying from Yoox to resell on Ebay. Buyers seem to have almost evaporated altogether on Ebay. I would love to see some stats on this. It's definitely not a good time to be a seller on Ebay. To the point that I took all the cheaper stuff off (less than $50-$100) and just finally wound up donating much of it. The cheaper stuff just wasn't moving at all, which is odd. I had a Zanone sweater on there for $95.00 ($395 sweater) with "make an offer" and I received one offer for $30 and wound up keeping it.

It seems to me we are witnessing seismic shifts with internet buying and I am 100% absolutely convinced, that some guys, have buyers fatigue. I think I do at times these days. The market is flooded with options and product. Point in case; about 4 or 5 years ago, I came across a brand called Aspesi (now very well known). It was almost impossible to find any outwear pieces in NYC or the net. Aspesi launched their e-commerce site and I bought a jacket full price and paid the tariff - total $800. Barneys had a few pieces on their floor. Now 4 years later, there are probably 40-50 jackets for sale on Ebay and they can be found in about 12 different online locations. This further proves my point of how valuable Yoox is in the mens clothing market. We are flooded with inventory and Yoox is a repository for this and catering to many men (who are frugal when it comes to clothing), changing anything with the model (making it more Mr. Porterish) will most likely be financial suicide since at some point, that inventory will back up too.

A much more eloquently stated thesis that I shared with a friend (non-SF) last night. I've noticed the exact same thing... things just aren't moving like the used to. I'm not so sure it's buyers fatigue than related to your second graf. Epic amount of choice in mensware. We've seen a lot of lower priced brands make a just good enough product that I think is certainly stealing market share from secondary market higher end goods sales like eBay and SF.

Take mainline shops like j.crew, club Monaco, etc. are producing garments in cuts and quality that mirror that of high-end Italian stuff. Suits, take Suit Supply or some of the MTM options around New York. For those not on SF or with great internet skills/resourcefulness/time, used to be that if you want something that wasn't "American fit" or 'American Styled" your choice was find someone on eBay. Finally, high-end men's shoes were somewhat bulletproof if new in box, (C&J, Vass, EG, G&G, etc) you could be certain to move at 50% off retail - and I wasn't buying to flip, but just selling stuff that didn't work out for me. Today, men that would have purchased those shoes have other options like Meermin, Jack Erwin, etc. that they can buy new from a retailer and get the model/color/size they want and don't feel the need comprise by purchasing on eBay, and pay around that same price point of 50% or less. That's my guess for what has happened.

Would love to hear others' experiences, though I realize this may not be the right thread.

 

[super1flavor]

A much more eloquently stated thesis that I shared with a friend (non-SF) last night. I've noticed the exact same thing... things just aren't moving like the used to. I'm not so sure it's buyers fatigue than related to your second graf. Epic amount of choice in mensware. We've seen a lot of lower priced brands make a just good enough product that I think is certainly stealing market share from secondary market higher end goods sales like eBay and SF.

Take mainline shops like j.crew, club Monaco, etc. are producing garments in cuts and quality that mirror that of high-end Italian stuff. Suits, take Suit Supply or some of the MTM options around New York. For those not on SF or with great internet skills/resourcefulness/time, used to be that if you want something that wasn't "American fit" or 'American Styled" your choice was find someone on eBay. Finally, high-end men's shoes were somewhat bulletproof if new in box, (C&J, Vass, EG, G&G, etc) you could be certain to move at 50% off retail - and I wasn't buying to flip, but just selling stuff that didn't work out for me. Today, men that would have purchased those shoes have other options like Meermin, Jack Erwin, etc. that they can buy new from a retailer and get the model/color/size they want and don't feel the need comprise by purchasing on eBay, and pay around that same price point of 50% or less. That's my guess for what has happened.

Would love to hear others' experiences, though I realize this may not be the right thread.

May not be the right thread, but a vital conversation for us guys. It goes all the way down to the root of our buying habits and with the market being flooded with inventory, we (or I) may have to change that. As you stated, it used to be, buy, don't like, sell on Ebay; often in 15-20 days. I would just write off the lost funds to finding something else on sale. These days, I am not so sure. In fact, it seems those crazy strange items you see on TheCorner, (all black leather jumpsuit) and somewhat other fashion forward items, have some of the best resale potential right now. I don't wear that crap, but the classics, something I believe you were alluding too, no longer have great resale value, since those like Club Monaco are producing those classics, albeit cheaper priced with lower manufacturing standards. Buying something Zegna, wearing it a dozen times and deciding to sell is now a much different experience than just a couple years ago. In fact, I clearly remember buying a Zegna Duo mainline cashmere sport coat on Yoox for $700 (marked down) with patch pockets and after several wearings, I decided patch pockets weren't for me. I sold it on Ebay for $600 gross (net with fees and shipping was $520). To be honest, today, I don't think I would get a penny more than $325.00 on Ebay for that same jacket.

And I agree with your reference on the shoes. I have been trying to sell a pair of O'Keeffe shoes purchased from Mr. Porter at full price with receipt, and worn a few times, for 50% off and I just can't give them away. I'm not even getting the BS offers of $100 at this point and I've been trying to sell them for 6 months. I've seen other sellers shoes sitting around forever too. Not good.

 

[StockwellDay]



May not be the right thread, but a vital conversation for us guys. It goes all the way down to the root of our buying habits and with the market being flooded with inventory, we (or I) may have to change that. As you stated, it used to be, buy, don't like, sell on Ebay; often in 15-20 days. I would just write off the lost funds to finding something else on sale. These days, I am not so sure. In fact, it seems those crazy strange items you see on TheCorner, (all black leather jumpsuit) and somewhat other fashion forward items, have some of the best resale potential right now. I don't wear that crap, but the classics, something I believe you were alluding too, no longer have great resale value, since those like Club Monaco are producing those classics, albeit cheaper priced with lower manufacturing standards. Buying something Zegna, wearing it a dozen times and deciding to sell is now a much different experience than just a couple years ago. In fact, I clearly remember buying a Zegna Duo mainline cashmere sport coat on Yoox for $700 (marked down) with patch pockets and after several wearings, I decided patch pockets weren't for me. I sold it on Ebay for $600 gross (net with fees and shipping was $520). To be honest, today, I don't think I would get a penny more than $325.00 on Ebay for that same jacket. 

And I agree with your reference on the shoes. I have been trying to sell a pair of O'Keeffe shoes purchased from Mr. Porter at full price with receipt, and worn a few times, for 50% off and I just can't give them away. I'm not even getting the BS offers of $100 at this point and I've been trying to sell them for 6 months. I've seen other sellers shoes sitting around forever too. Not good. 

A couple other potential factors for eBay is the strong dollar and emerging markets slow down. I have a smaller shoe size and sold a number of shoes to Asia. This is, perhaps, another factor(s) in my case.

 

[mtmindc]



Today, men that would have purchased those shoes have other options like Meermin, Jack Erwin, etc. that they can buy new from a retailer and get the model/color/size they want and don't feel the need comprise by purchasing on eBay, and pay around that same price point of 50% or less. That's my guess for what has happened. 

I'm inclined to agree with this. For beginners afraid to step up to $300 Allen Edmonds, Jack Erwin or Meermin is probably preferable to eBay.

Also: beginner SF is learning to dress well; advanced SF is learning to shop Yoox.

 

[harlemriver]

I don't know what store that is, but retailers get stuff on Yoox when it has become dirt-cheap on there and re-sell it with a profit margin. E-bay sellers do it, why shouldn't brick-and-mortar stores do it also.

They just ended their "friends and family" offer with some huge drops.
I just checked my order history and I got some incredible deals on February 26th (Belgian site), that's really not long ago. I am expecting big drops in late June or July.

So did anyone ever answer this question: how comes you can find some Yoox items at the C21 store in NYC?

Are you talking about YOOX exclusive merchandise? If not, then it's simple. Distributors/manufacturers/stores can re-sell to anyone - not just YOOX. Century 21 has been in the off-season, overstock game long before YOOX and will carry some of the same brands. They are sourcing from all over.

Just as Bergdorf Goodman and Barneys carry some of the same brands.

 

[harlemriver]

I must admit that I've also succumbed to this, too. A man can only be so patient . . . .

It's definitely not as easy it once was. Just today, I had a suit in my shopping cart that was price adjusted upwards - price was adjusted from $531 to $620. And a couple of days ago, some permanent sale merchandise in my Dreambox was price increased from a discount of 70% off to only 65% off original YOOX price.

Then with this 25% off sale, people are already buying up my dreambox as many of the items I want are "last one available" status - they hit the site with only one available too. So it's tough to try and wait for everything to get deeply discounted - esp. with limited quantities. My tactic it to be smart and prudent with my purchases; if I really want something and only one is available then I order it with a promotion (sometimes even not). Who knows? It might be the piece and the fit that makes life worth living. If it doesn't work out then I just return it. But I want tot have that option.

 

[harryx2]

Great points gentlemen. I'm not so sure how I should feel about this development. I've been a loyal Yoox customer and I wouldn't want anything to change in a Mr Porter kind of way.

 

[MTLinStyle]

It's definitely not as easy it once was. Just today, I had a suit in my shopping cart that was price adjusted upwards - price was adjusted from $531 to $620. And a couple of days ago, some permanent sale merchandise in my Dreambox was price increased from a discount of 70% off to only 65% off original YOOX price.

Then with this 25% off sale, people are already buying up my dreambox as many of the items I want are "last one available" status - they hit the site with only one available too. So it's tough to try and wait for everything to get deeply discounted - esp. with limited quantities. My tactic it to be smart and prudent with my purchases; if I really want something and only one is available then I order it with a promotion (sometimes even not). Who knows? It might be the piece and the fit that makes life worth living. If it doesn't work out then I just return it. But I want tot have that option.

 

[Melbush]

Are you talking about YOOX exclusive merchandise? If not, then it's simple. Distributors/manufacturers/stores can re-sell to anyone - not just YOOX. Century 21 has been in the off-season, overstock game long before YOOX and will carry some of the same brands. They are sourcing from all over.

Just as Bergdorf Goodman and Barneys carry some of the same brands.

Yeah I know that Yoox and C21 basically do the same thing, but I have seen stuff at C21 woth the Yoox tags (and I'm not the first one), that's just weird