Microsoft Surface

[Jr Mouse]

****, I wish I was in the rich asshole demographic.

 

[Dbear]

So who has actually bought one of these and how is it.

 

[javyn]



****, I wish I was in the rich asshole demographic.

Me too. The asshole part came easy, still trying to figure out where I went wrong with getting rich...probably being marsupialed has something to do with it.

 

[Rambo]



Wow, I just realized they are not bundling a touch cover in with the Surface Pro's either. This adds $120 per device. So realistically this makes your initial investment closer to $1020 for the cheaper one, then $899. I don't get it. Who is the market for these "tablets"?
To be clear, I do get the Surface RT. As a product it completely makes sense to me and is compelling. Well if you ignore the fact that it still has Desktop and asks you use Office apps with a ****** hacked on touch mode, that is.

I suspect this will be a hit with corporate america.

 

[GQgeek]



You don't think the price is also a downside? That's rather expensive for a "tablet" in this competitive market. Remember that's what MS is going to market this device as, so it's going to be cross shopped by consumers as such.
EDIT: Plus it's way too heavy to be used comfortably as a tablet, so why even bother designing it to be used as one? Just make it a thin and light laptop with a touchscreen and market it as such.
I'm just not sure I believe the Surface Pro going to make the type of inroads with consumers that MS desires. Too heavy and expensive for a tablet with ****** battery-life compared to the competition and not a strong enough product as a laptop.

I honestly don't know how well this will do with consumers. I could honestly see myself using it as a laptop replacement and if it's good enough as a tablet I don't need a second device. Do I really want to purchase both an ultrabook AND a tablet? I suspect a lot of people see the appeal of tablets and will be willing to compromise a bit but who knows...The specs are very strong and had it been available when I was in school, it would have been an instant buy.

Think about what that $1020-$1120 is buying you. Very few ultrabooks can match it on specs and no ultrabooks can match it on price for what you are getting. Not the MBA (the $999 version only has 64GB, is lower res, and has no inking capability) and not most ultrabooks on the PC side. And it's lighter than any of them. Yes, it's a bit thicker and heavier than a typical tablet but it's capable of so much more. Having said that, I love my X series thinkpad but the screen/resolution of it sucks and I've said for a while now that I won't buy another device that is lower than 1080p but the options are few and far between in the ultrabook category. Displays in that category generally suck. There's nothing to stop you from getting both touch and type covers. Yes, it's a little bit more money, but the type makes all the difference if you need to use it more as a laptop going on a business trip, for example, and the extra bulk/weight isn't as big a deal as it is on a daily commute.

I guess the biggest question you have to ask yourself prior to purchasing one is how will you use it and that's a bit hard for such a new type of device. Will you use it 80% as laptop and 20% as tablet or vice-versa or some other combo? I've never intended to use a tablet as my regular e-reader. I use a kindle for that. Technical books? Yes, but I am at a desk when reading those as opposed to standing on the subway holding it with one hand, where frankly even the surface RT or iPad are too heavy. Most people reading iPads on the subway for any length of time are seated and have the ipad propped up against their legs. And apparently it actually does work pretty well in bed so that you don't have to hold it up all that time... What you do is fold the keyboard back and that provides a flat surface for the kickstand to rest on. Still, I'd like to try it in a couple different positions. And it's obviously great for note taking, meetings, etc.

I'm holding off my decision until there's actual battery life tests though MS seems to be taking a conservative line on that question. I find it a bit strange that the MBA with a 1.2" large screen (and yes fewer pixels), consumes so much less battery than this tablet does. Both would have ivy bridge processors. Both have SSDs. Both have 4GB RAM. The Surface pro has a 7W-Hr advantage in battery capacity. Surely the digitizer for pen input doesn't account for that difference? I know that for haswell (intel's next gen chip coming out next year), intel is reading manufacturers of other components the riot act when it comes to how various other components on the motherboard behave in terms of power consumption. Has mac already done that? Maybe MS is making worst-case assumptions based on the poorly behaving legacy apps that will keep bring the CPU out of lower power states that most people will install on them? Windows 8 has actually made huge improvements to power management, so if it's only 4.5 hours to an MBA, i'll honestly be a little puzzled, because I don't see how there's that much difference on the OS level anymore.

For businesses, the Surface Pro is a no brainer, and I say that as someone that makes purchasing decisions. The Surface Pro is exactly what we've been waiting for in the enterprise.

 

[Rambo]



For businesses, the Surface Pro is a no brainer, and I say that as someone that makes purchasing decisions. The Surface Pro is exactly what we've been waiting for in the enterprise.

Why?

 

[GQgeek]



Why?

Control and security mostly. It runs windows 8 pro so you can join tham to an Active Directory domain and tightly control what can/can't be done on it, keep it updated and secure, implement network access control policies, etc. It ties in with all the management capabilities of the MS ecosystem which go far beyond wiping exchange accounts and requiring a password. It's got full device encryption which is essential to a lot of businesses (and government) for portable devices. Think about hospitals or anyone with sensitive information. There are strict compliance regulations that govern how you can access certain types of information and what controls must be in place to prevent that information being compromised.

And the USB port is very important. Think payment terminals, diagnostic tools, handheld scanners, and lots of other crap. These peripherals will vary by industry but many have some devices they'd like to attach to their tablets.

 

[Jr Mouse]

You just stated that the iPad and Surface RT are too heavy. At 1.44 pounds for the iPad 3 and 1.5 pounds for the RT, I agree. Not a day goes by that I dont wish my iPad 3 was lighter and I couldn't imagine it being comfortable in use if it weighed more. The Surface Pro is around 33% heavier. At 2 pounds it's not a "good enough" tablet replacement. The size, aspect ratio and weight indicate to me no one is going to use this device as a tablet and thus will still want to own a secondary device to use as such.

The Surface Pro doesn't make a lot of sense in context of how MS is marketing the device and wants you to use it.

 

[GQgeek]



You just stated that the iPad and Surface RT are too heavy. At 1.44 pounds for the iPad 3 and 1.5 pounds for the RT, I agree. Not a day goes by that I dont wish my iPad 3 was lighter and I couldn't imagine it being comfortable in use if it weighed more. The Surface Pro is around 33% heavier. At 2 pounds it's not a "good enough" tablet replacement. The size, aspect ratio and weight indicate to me no one is going to use this device as a tablet and thus will still want to own a secondary device to use as such.
The Surface Pro doesn't make a lot of sense in context of how MS is marketing the device and wants you to use it.

I said it's they're too heavy for one-handed use for extended periods of time. Most people aren't using tablets one-handed and suspended in the air for 45 minutes though. I think that most use it in bed, on the couch, at a conference table, in their lap, etc. Most of the time, the bulk of the weight would be supported by something other than a hand. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see something like this a pound lighter but it's not going to happen for another 2-3 years so for now it's about choosing the right set of tradeoffs.

 

[Rambo]

This is interesting:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/29...g-amidst-reports-of-poor-sales-of-rt-version/

 

[Jr Mouse]



I said it's they're too heavy for one-handed use for extended periods of time. Most people aren't using tablets one-handed and suspended in the air for 45 minutes though. I think that most use it in bed, on the couch, at a conference table, in their lap, etc. Most of the time, the bulk of the weight would be supported by something other than a hand. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see something like this a pound lighter but it's not going to happen for another 2-3 years so for now it's about choosing the right set of tradeoffs.

A two pound tablet that gets 5 hours of battery life and costs a grand is not the right trade off this year or any year. This is not a compelling device as its been designed and marketed to be used.

We can keep going in circles here, but unless you have a better arguement I am going to continue to disagree on this.

 

[Jr Mouse]



This is interesting:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/29...g-amidst-reports-of-poor-sales-of-rt-version/

There has also been a lot of talk about high levels of returns for the RT. if that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. MS has done a poor job of communicating what the RT is and the simple fact it can't run legacy apps. I kind of like the RT and all this disappoints me as I would like to see the platform take off. Hopefully these rumors are FUD.

I came to a realization last night on how MS could have handled RT and Wimdows 8 differently and avoided much of the critical reception they have received. I'll try and share it later as I am curious what everyone's thoughs would be on it.

 

[Rambo]



I came to a realization last night on how MS could have handled RT and Wimdows 8 differently and avoided much of the critical reception they have received. I'll try and share it later as I am curious what everyone's thoughs would be on it.

was this before or after the third glass of wine?

 

[Jr Mouse]

Before, but the wine helped me flesh it out.

 

[GQgeek]



There has also been a lot of talk about high levels of returns for the RT. if that's true, I wouldn't be surprised. MS has done a poor job of communicating what the RT is and the simple fact it can't run legacy apps. I kind of like the RT and all this disappoints me as I would like to see the platform take off. Hopefully these rumors are FUD.
I came to a realization last night on how MS could have handled RT and Wimdows 8 differently and avoided much of the critical reception they have received. I'll try and share it later as I am curious what everyone's thoughs would be on it.

People get lazy in blog posts and have been calling it the Surface RT, but they're actually called Surface with Windows RT and Surface with Windows Pro. Do you think that's a clear enough distinction? I suppose I'm not a regular consumer, but can probably can guess at what Windows 8 is but if they've got any brains at all, wouldn't they be prompted to question what Windows RT was and a) ask a sales rep for details or b) google it? It would then be immediately clear which did what.

I'm not sure if MS is deliberately trying to blur the line and it'll end up costing them. I really think that on their product comparison page they need to be explicit that the Surface with Windows 8 Pro runs all your old windows programs but that the RT only runs Metro style apps. I've always thought calling it RT was stupid. It's a meaningless name to anyone that's not a developer and the easiest way to convey what it was would have been through its name.