Luxury clothes of the past

[clee1982]

and which store is that?

I have been bother with physical store for a long time I suppose (at least for store), it used to be Bergdorf Goodman, Paul Stuart, Ralph Lauren would give you advice, no idea about these days (even back in 2007 Brooks Brothers doesn't)

 

[Keyser_Söze]

I’ve been harping on the point that the lack of taste and knowledge is the real thing that’s been lost

I 100% agree.

 

[jonathanS]

My problem with most of these guys is that aside from the dishonesty in the marketing and claiming they’re bespoke, they largely aren’t putting out good product.

for me, it’s the dishonesty. I have seen some of the products that are good.

Dishonesty, though, really bothers me. There’s a tailor who makes really good (albeit not my taste) stuff that claims they were trained in Italy. Their Italian training is a 3 month pattern drafting class. How do I know? Because I have a friend who was in the class with them!! My friend proceeded to become a jacket maker at one of the caracenis before returning home. They were trained at a big tailoring house in their home country and do good work.

Another tailor apprenticed in Napoli for 90 days (he makes good stuff, but, again, not my taste - which is different from saying his tailoring is bad). But says he was trained in Napoli.

I’d just rather tailors be honest about their training.

 

[DapperDan15]

Really, I don't think that satisfaction with cut or the quality of work has much to do with the "definition of luxury." Luxury simply means an excess over what's needed. Mediocre tailoring results from an expensive tailor is still a luxury, I'd say, because it likely isn't actually needed by the customer and because it's something far out of reach for most people (today, anyway).

 

[JohnMRobie]

Luxury simply means an excess over what's needed.

 

[WhyUEarly]

Yea...that's not a very useful definition of luxury. A very slippery slope. It's impossible to baseline what's necessary. If you ask my grandparents generation, they'll say everything in my life is luxury and that I live like a prince.

There's a slightly technical/business definition of luxury I like. Most businesses price based on input price, say 3x wholesale price or landed price. But luxury pricing is more like, we'll price whatever it takes (5x or 10x)because that's what it takes to maintain the quality and customer service level.

It's like Loro Piana investing large sums in vicuna conservation. Or Hermes having their own silks. Or dior maintaining their own gardens for perfume materials. None of that is purely necessary...

Growing up, I would avoid wool sweaters because they're scratchy. Today I'm wearing merino wool, which you can find for $20 in Uniqlo. Merino used to be exclusive to the Spanish royalty centuries ago. So yea, that's a very slippery definition of luxury...

 

[DapperDan15]

View attachment 2307585

Says the guy who buys Tom Ford suits... I'm sure you really needed them, of course.

The actual definition of the word "luxury" means something that is extra, or excessive. What you choose to associate "luxury" with is up to you.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Says the guy who buys Tom Ford suits... I'm sure you really needed them, of course.

I gave my Tom Ford suits away to a couple friends. Didn’t love the fit on me. I think the only RTW suit in my closet currently is a Sartoria Formosa.

 

[Keyser_Söze]

This back and forth I think shows that it's hard to define luxury of the past when luxury of the present isn't even clearly defined or agreed upon.

 

[PSNY]

Agree on all points, however, IMO the Assisi jacket on Simon looks off. The sleeves are a bit too full, Simon does not have an athletic physique, he has relatively skinny arms, there is virtually no taper on his sleeves.

Arguably his best garments are from Ciardi, Solito, Panico IMO. This is not to say Assisi does not make an amazing garment, they absolutely do, but that example does not flatter Simon. He also has a habit of injecting a lot of his own stylistic elements into his commissions e.g., jacket length, fuller sleeves, button position, etc.

 

[comrade]

I 100% agree.

That may be true but some of us were raised at a time when varied examples of good tailored clothing was widely available. My father was very well dressed but in high-end RTW and MTM, although he had a few bespoke pieces made by no-name tailors in NYC. I was also
socialized in the Ivy style in high school and college. My uncle wore bespoke from one of the best tailors in New York, the now gone D'Andrea Bros. But his taste was too sharp for me. My point is, one can have good taste from upbringing and/or instinct and still be a poor
judge of the tailor's art. My late brother in law was a very handsome, wealthy lawyer He could wear a suit from Men's Wearhorse and look like a model from GQ or the Rake. Although he wore better clothes. I used to get MTM clothes from Chipp beause I liked
certain details not on their RTW or my trouser cut did not accord with their standard
cut. I am not sure that I looked better in their MTM vs equal quality RTW. In those days I
could put on the more fitted Paul Stuart or Chipp jacket and walk out of the store without
alterations. That's how well these models worked for me. Would they have looked noticeably
better bespoke?

 

[Keyser_Söze]

That may be true but some of us were raised at a time when varied examples of good tailored clothing was widely available. My father was very well dressed but in high-end RTW and MTM, although he had a few bespoke pieces made by no-name tailors in NYC. I was also
socialized in the Ivy style in high school and college. My uncle wore bespoke from one of the best tailors in New York, the now gone D'Andrea Bros. But his taste was too sharp for me. My point is, one can have good taste from upbringing and/or instinct and still be a poor
judge of the tailor's art. My late brother in law was a very handsome, wealthy lawyer He could wear a suit from Men's Wearhorse and look like a model from GQ or the Rake. Although he wore better clothes. I used to get MTM clothes from Chipp beause I liked
certain details not on their RTW or my trouser cut did not accord with their standard
cut. I am not sure that I looked better in their MTM vs equal quality RTW. In those days I
could put on the more fitted Paul Stuart or Chipp jacket and walk out of the store without
alterations. That's how well these models worked for me. Would they have looked noticeably
better bespoke?

When discussing good taste we aren't discussing MTM and bespoke comparisons. We are discussing current societal trends of wearing denim with holes the size of half the leg, cheap synthetic fabrics, and leather dress shoes with rubber athletic soles to go with a suit. Everything I just mentioned can be found from "luxury" designers these days.

 

[PSNY]

"rubber athletic soles to go with a suit", has to be one of the worst disasters of our generation in terms of dressing. Abhorrent, not to mention, they're usually a disgusting orange color...

 

[JohnMRobie]

When discussing good taste we aren't discussing MTM and bespoke comparisons. We are discussing current societal trends of wearing denim with holes the size of half the leg, cheap synthetic fabrics, and leather dress shoes with rubber athletic soles to go with a suit. Everything I just mentioned can be found from "luxury" designers these days.

Disagree with most of this take.

There’s a very specific version of “good taste” that can be achieved in tailoring combinations. What goes together, what works, what’s good taste. But that’s also limited to a specific interpretation of classic menswear.

When I spoke about taste being lost I mean specifically the sales associates ability to help people find things that make sense. Plenty of the MTM shops are bad fitters. Push people to bad fabric choices.

Also there are plenty of things that are high quality and “luxury” that don’t fit into the context of classic menswear or good taste. There are also classic menswear quality and luxury brands that lack good taste - Gaziano Girling makes blue shoes after all.

 

[comrade]

When discussing good taste we aren't discussing MTM and bespoke comparisons. We are discussing current societal trends of wearing denim with holes the size of half the leg, cheap synthetic fabrics, and leather dress shoes with rubber athletic soles to go with a suit. Everything I just mentioned can be found from "luxury" designers these days.

Those are beyond the Pale and not worth discussion. Even though the Governor of Pennsylvania , at a Kamala Harris rally ( remember her?) wearing a suit without a tie
and black sneaker like shoes- Ugh !