John Lobb welting

[DapperDan15]

Long time lurker, sometime poster here. Going over a few of the old threads on the site, I came across a bunch of discussion on shoe construction and have been down a rabbithole for a while! I was hoping some more knowledgeable members could helpanswer a few questions I had, especially concerning John Lobb construction.

As I understand: shoes can be made either handwelted or Goodyear, with hand welting preferred by many because of Goodyear's gemming construction. The chief issue seems to be that goodyear is said to be sewn to the gemming only, rather than to any insole leather.

My questions: I ran across a thread recently where an older member was dissecting a few shoe brands, John Lobb among them. https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...-edmonds-john-lobb-bostonian-and-more.415186/ Now what's interesting to me is that the Lobbs are claimed by a couple people to be bespoke shoes, when they're actually Philip II model, which I think is still RTW or made-to-measure.

But what's more important is this image: It appears to show the leather channel on the insole, which has been hand sewn by John Lobb. But I can clearly see what looks like canvas reinforcement that has been applied to the "holdfast"!

My questions: 1. Does it seem to anyone else like John Lobb uses a canvas strip as reinforcement of their insole before handsewing, or am I just seeing things?

2. Is this possibly a common practice among high-end makers? In other words, are goodyear shoes simply machine-sewn to the insole with canvas as a backing reinforcement, and not ONLY to the canvas strip?

3. Does anyone else have John Lobb shoes that they've seen taken apart like this and compared? What is your impression about the construction?

I'm hoping we can get to the bottom of this together!

 

[florent]

Most RTW makers, even high-end such as JL or EG, use Goodyear welting and a fabric gemming. This is what we see on that picture.

 

[DapperDan15]

Most RTW makers, even high-end such as JL or EG, use Goodyear welting and a fabric gemming. This is what we see on that picture.

Thanks for the response! So is that photo just showing the welt sewn to gemming only, or is it a leather feather being reinforced with the gemming?

It seems odd that John Lobb would hand welt a shoe if it were only constructed with cemented gemming and no other connection to the insole. Is this common?

 

[florent]

Yes to your first question. And they don't handwelt

 

[DapperDan15]

Yes to your first question. And they don't handwelt

Got it. Do the "awl marks" in the other pictures show some kind of machine marks instead, then?

I'm just a little obsessive over this topic because I've been thinking about a pair of Lobbs for a while now, and I wanted to find out more about their process.

Would you (or anyone else) have pics of any bespoke or RTW Lobbs on hand, to compare sock liners?

 

[MaitM]

You can go check out Bedo's Leatherworks on YT, I think he has taken apart a few pairs of Lobb's from both Paris and St. James.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Let's go back to where the picture came from:

John Lobb


On the 'sock' you'll find embossed lengthwise the signature of the historic John Lobb. That means those are bespoke, hand made shoes, made by John Lobb (Paris) in their bespoke workshop in Paris. JLP also produces a RTW collection, which is made in Northampton, England. Those are marked (in it's current incarnation) with John Lobb in a very plain typeface. (Until a few years back the typeface was more elaborate and featured an additional 'boot' composed by the letters J and L.)

John Lobb (London) makes only bespoke shoes. They use that same old man Lobb signature, but crosswise and their Royal Warrants, which fluctuate depending on the warrant situation at the time the shoes were made.

Those bespoke and handmade JLP shoes are some the finest and most expensive shoe you can buy. If you place an order today, you won't get much change (if any) from 10k Dollars.

 

[DapperDan15]

Let's go back to where the picture came from:

John Lobb


On the 'sock' you'll find embossed lengthwise the signature of the historic John Lobb. That means those are bespoke, hand made shoes, made by John Lobb (Paris) in their bespoke workshop in Paris. JLP also produces a RTW collection, which is made in Northampton, England. Those are marked (in it's current incarnation) with John Lobb in a very plain typeface. (Until a few years back the typeface was more elaborate and featured an additional 'boot' composed by the letters J and L.)

John Lobb (London) makes only bespoke shoes. They use that same old man Lobb signature, but crosswise and their Royal Warrants, which fluctuate depending on the warrant situation at the time the shoes were made.

Those bespoke and handmade JLP shoes are some the finest and most expensive shoe you can buy. If you place an order today, you won't get much change (if any) from 10k Dollars.

Thanks very much for this! I knew Lobb made RTW shoes too, but I didn't know that both Paris and London made bespoke. I liked the look of those shoes very much (almost sad that they're dissected).

It seems like Lobb has used the canvas as a reinforcement for the stitching then? So it can't always be a sign of inferior construction.

 

[DapperDan15]

You can go check out Bedo's Leatherworks on YT, I think he has taken apart a few pairs of Lobb's from both Paris and St. James.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check them out!

 

[florent]

My apologies for my previous messages then, I was misled by the mention that they would be RTW.
The canvas is puzzling to me though

 

[DapperDan15]

My apologies for my previous messages then, I was misled by the mention that they would be RTW.
The canvas is puzzling to me though

It stumps me, too. Not really sure why it would be present, except as reinforcement.