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All volume bicycle frame makers have so many products now that "good" and "bad" have become relative terms. The "Big 3" in Italian frames have been and still are Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi. They all produce absolutely great frames, as well as some (especially Bianchi) absolutely mediocre frames that sell at Walmart, etc. Call it globalization. Other excellent and smaller brands that should have enough diffusion to find used are DeRosa, Scapin, Wilier, Casati, Fondriest, Gios, Battaglin, a bunch of others, maybe Olympia. Somec are good but hard to find. You can always PM me if you need advice on a particular bicycle. I doubt you are now, but if you are ever in the market for a custom frame, just drop everything and go visit Dario Pegoretti up in Caldonazzo (Trento). Amazing person, incredible frames. Basically a 1-man shop. Check out his site just for fun. Do you speak Italian? As you say, Pinarello are located very near you, in Villorba, just outside Treviso. They make excellent frames. If you go there, they will take you around back to the factory (at least they used to, for years, but I haven't been there in 5-6) and if they have a frame (not many used but some NOS, etc.) they will fit you. Great people and worth it. You can trust them. Maybe they even speak English, I don't know. Scapin are also located near Treviso, and they build absolutely super frames; they are much smaller than Pinarello, but you could go there too. Wilier Triestina is in Rossano Veneto (near Bassano del Grappa). Do you live in Venice, ID? How will you get to your riding area with the bicycle? You can either go to the Lido by vaporetto, or to the mainland by bus, train, or on the bike via Ponte della Libertà...(not a fun experience). Once out in the country, however, things get good, as Italian drivers have tremendous respect for cyclists, unlike in the US.Please can somebody help me? I've been wanting to get into road cycling for some time lately, and have finally decided to make the plunge. Ideally, I'd like something second hand as my friend says that's the best way to get more for your money. Could anybody recommend a decent second hand road bike for circa €1000? What should I be looking for? Are the Italian makers like Pinarello and Bianchi any good? The Pinarello HQ is about 40km away from me.
I agree with all of the above. While it is possible to generally understand the frame size one requires, using the calculators online at Competitive Cyclist, Colorado Cyclist, by googling "bicycle fit", etc., it is a lot of work and those calculators don't take into account critical postions such as the seatpost/saddle height, handlebar stem length/rise/height, and crankarm length/pedal placement. These 3 positions/adjustments are critical, as important as frame size and geometry. However, if the bike shop or a calculator say that a 57cm frame is the proper size, and one then finds a 57 cm bicycle in the classifieds, etc., it is not so hard to understand by test riding whether or not the crankshaft and stem are the correct size. The seatpost is the easiest adjustment of the 3, ID, since one is only moving the post up/down and the saddle fore/aft, and not buying a new component. Nothing you can do if a stem or crankset arms are too long/short but replace them. In any case, even if a good fitter specs out your settings, while the frame size and cranarm length probably will never change, over time and as you ride more and gain experience/fitness you will undoubtedlt tweak your saddle and bar position. ID, if you can find a good shop/fitter, that would be the logical first step. Unfortunately, I know from experience having grown up in Venice and still living there, and being a cyclist all my life, that there is a remarkable shortage of good shops in the Venice/Mestre area, as in 0. Further out, in Padova, Vicenza, Verona, etc. there are some.don't get a 2nd hand bike until you know what you're doing. as in clothing, fit is the most important thing. try to find a good shop that you can imagine yourself spending some time in, and where you get along with the staff and mechanics. they will fit you for a bike, and answer other questions regarding sizing, materials, clothing (you will need to buy shoes, helmet and some decent outfits), and gear. these days you can get a very nice, light road bike for € 1000.
Again, all true. A good condition used middle- to top-line steel frame from any of those builders above, like a Pinarello Montello or Opera or a DeRosa Primato/Neo Primato would be an excellent first frame. A good titanium frame is incredible, but harder to find used as there were many fewer produced. With used carbon it is absolutely important that the frame not have been abused or crashed by a previous owner. Avoid aluminum in my opinion.Agree with Fries comment re. fit. If you have a well-fitted bike, you will want to get on it more often, and you will want to ride it farther all the time. You can certainly do better for your money by getting one second hand. But it will be a long process of first riding a ton of diff bikes to determine not only appropriate frame size, but also your preferred riding geometry. It would be better to hit a few shops, try some different brands and styles, and determine what you enjoy riding the most. And yes, Bianchi is a good brand. If I had to give up every bike except one, I would keep my Bianchi. Don't have any personal experience with Pinarello, but they make some pretty cutting edge/high end frames and might be too much for your first road bike. Perhaps someone else can provide more info there.
Again, I'll second the comments re: good used from a shop and risky used via private sale. Honestly, I would avoid a cheap aluminum Bianchi like the plague. Harsh, unforgiving, just not fun. Bianchi made great alu bikes such as the EVO2 for Pantani, but those all are Italian-built, in their "Reparto Corse", and are in a different league entirely. Wilier Cento Uno is a fantastic frame. Campagnolo Athena, even Centaur, is more than enough group, especially these days where Athena is like Record of 6-7 years ago. ID: have fun and good luck! (And, esp, in Italy but also anywhere else in the world, DO NOT buy Shimano. Campagnolo only! )Buying the bike in the winter should get you a decent deal. An aluminium bike by Bianchi with shimano 105 on it should be possible. I am a Campagnolo fan, but I don´t know if you can get a good deal on a Bianchi with campa centaur on it for a 1000 euros. A well cared for second hand bike is definately interesting if a shop has one that fits you well. Buying a second hand bike straight from another cyclist is a risk if you dont know what to look for in a bike yet. If you start out on a bike now that fits you well you can enjoy cycling and learn more and more about bikes and what you look for in bikes so that maybe in a couple of years you can buy a dreambike if you really like the sport. I had an old gazelle steel bike. I upgraded to an aluminium Prorace from Belgium. And now I ride a Wilier Cento Uno with campy chorus and fulcrum zeros. All the bikes gave me a lot of joy and were right for me at that time and at that level of fitness.
Thanks, Venessian, an extremely informative post. I live in San Polo, so I would probably just get the train out to Bassano or something, or maybe the vaporetto to Lido as you mentioned. You're right saying that there are zero bike shops around here, but I've seen a few in Treviso and Castelfranco. I'm just curious as to why you'd avoid an aluminium frame, as I really don't know the reasons why. I suppose I could up my budget to around €1200. Thanks for the other suggestions, I really like the look of Scapin. Have you any opinion on Cinelli? My Italians not that fantastic but I think I could survive and give instruction in a bike fitting in all Italian. Bianchi has offered to measure me at their factory shop, I guess I could try Pinarello too. I just want a simple looking frame basically, and that isn't something offered at my price point unless i went with a pista which i'm not too keen on.All volume bicycle frame makers have so many products now that "good" and "bad" have become relative terms. The "Big 3" in Italian frames have been and still are Colnago, Pinarello, Bianchi. They all produce absolutely great frames... Do you live in Venice, ID? How will you get to your riding area with the bicycle?
Thanks, Venessian, an extremely informative post. I live in San Polo, so I would probably just get the train out to Bassano or something, or maybe the vaporetto to Lido as you mentioned. You're right saying that there are zero bike shops around here, but I've seen a few in Treviso and Castelfranco. I'm just curious as to why you'd avoid an aluminium frame, as I really don't know the reasons why. I suppose I could up my budget to around €1200. Thanks for the other suggestions, I really like the look of Scapin.
Have you any opinion on Cinelli? My Italians not that fantastic but I think I could survive and give instruction in a bike fitting in all Italian. Bianchi has offered to measure me at their factory shop, I guess I could try Pinarello too. I just want a simple looking frame basically, and that isn't something offered at my price point unless i went with a pista which i'm not too keen on.
Whats wrong with intense?
Exactly what i was thinking, use somethng like 29x2.2 tires or something.
nothing per se wrong, but intense has no history in making bikes like that. it will also be likely over-priced. if someone were to force me to get a fully rigid it would have to be be titanium, and from a maker with history in ti bikes.
I kind of agree with that, re: Intense. They are good but there are many other options.nothing per se wrong, but intense has no history in making bikes like that. it will also be likely over-priced. if someone were to force me to get a fully rigid it would have to be be titanium, and from a maker with history in ti bikes.
Scapin are fantastic frames. The Lido is fun, easy, convenient. Boring after awhile, but still nice because it is close. The Prologue (Team Time Trial) of the 2009 Giro d'Italia was run at the Lido. It was awesome. [VIDEO][/VIDEO]Thanks, Venessian, an extremely informative post. I live in San Polo, so I would probably just get the train out to Bassano or something, or maybe the vaporetto to Lido as you mentioned. You're right saying that there are zero bike shops around here, but I've seen a few in Treviso and Castelfranco. I'm just curious as to why you'd avoid an aluminium frame, as I really don't know the reasons why. I suppose I could up my budget to around €1200. Thanks for the other suggestions, I really like the look of Scapin. Have you any opinion on Cinelli? My Italians not that fantastic but I think I could survive and give instruction in a bike fitting in all Italian. Bianchi has offered to measure me at their factory shop, I guess I could try Pinarello too. I just want a simple looking frame basically, and that isn't something offered at my price point unless i went with a pista which i'm not too keen on.
^
Nice.
Nit-picky details for me are the saddle; maybe the bar shape; definitely the cages. The rest of the build looks solid and good for that frame.
^
Nice.
Nit-picky details for me are the saddle; maybe the bar shape; definitely the cages. The rest of the build looks solid and good for that frame.
The modern headset and stem look odd and I agree on the bar shape and cages but what's wrong with the saddle (apart from not being horizontal)?