Gen Z "Zoomers" and Classic Menswear

[JFWR]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve tried to pick things up in the past but I’m something of an irregular shape, I’ve had limited success thrifting. I’m getting ready to go down the Proper Cloth route

Okay. Fair enough. I mean, if you find a sports coat in a thrift store, you're still gonna need to get it altered by a tailor, at least for say, sleeve length.

 

[steveabdn]

Okay. Fair enough. I mean, if you find a sports coat in a thrift store, you're still gonna need to get it altered by a tailor, at least for say, sleeve length.

Sleeve length is about the only thing I seem to be pretty standard at 😀

I do appreciate you taking the time to post advice, where I live there isn’t really a thrifting scene so I have a number of saved eBay searches to try and pick up some options. I have tried to keep on top of the classifieds here and some of the affiliate thrift sites as well. The attached picture is the first time I will have actually appeared on Styleforum, I am looking forward to working with proper cloth, my expectations aren’t to have the worlds most expensive clothes but just to have well fitted clothes

 

[dieworkwear]

when is the last time “classic menswear” was actually popular? 1958?

Popular was maybe 1980s.

Last time it was somewhat relevant was probably 2010.

dressing like an extra in some film noir movie hasn’t really been popular in most of our lifetimes.

Yes, I think this is how classic dress is increasingly considered even by people who are interested in "classic style." They see classic style as basically like like dressing like film noir character. Which to me, just shows how increasingly irrelevant classic style is nowadays.

 

[dieworkwear]

so why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish on a classic menswear forum? Just here to tell everyone that what they are wearing doesn’t qualify for the forum? Seems like an odd existence for somebody to spend so much time with thag as their goal.

Yes, it's an odd existence, I agree.

 

[mak1277]

Are brands like Aime Leon Dore ubiquitous enough to be aspirational for teens? Seems like that aesthetic (which I like, on balance) might be the closest thing to a revival of tailoring that we're likely to get in the near future.

 

[St1X]

i don’t think “dad bod” is obesity per se. Just middle age man who doesn’t have time to hit the gym every day look. The soft torso, shoulders that slump over time, a few extra pounds but not obese.
Soft body middle aged men.

pretty unavoidable for 90% of the population.

there is a reason why structured jackets have been popular for so long. They hide these imperfections. Those reasons aren’t going away anytime soon.

Stop eating junk food and drinking soda. You don't need to hit the gym regularly to maintain a proper looking body. But having a typical American lifestyle with no physical movement and consuming junk will not just ruin your body, but also kill you prematurely.
P.S. Look at developed Asian countries like Korea and Taiwan - I've barely seen anyone fat there, not even talking about obese

 

[tgaith77]

I don't usually find myself defending SF members, but Derek is generally a well-respected member (as well as at other sites and magazines) whose opinions and insights are well-informed and has been a great resource to many here. He has his own appreciation thread, not many can say that.

Like any sort of community you've been around for a number of years, many have seen SF change a lot (myself included). While you are open and welcome to change, sometimes things can change in a not great way. Threads are increasingly fragmented and isolated. People are less open to feedback. More dogmatic. More echo chambers. 43,255,256,562,456 threads on shoes. That's silly. And frustrating.

Not speaking for Derek, but he's been increasingly vocal about some frustrating aspects of this place. At the same time though, he has created a number of new threads recently to spur more interesting discussions about clothes, instead of another thread ranking the best shoes under $500...

I'm team Derek.🤙

 

[St1X]

I’m not saying you are wrong, but the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of people’s (especially American) lifestyle promotes the dad bod. That’s just reality. (And by dad bod I’m not even referring to fat people, just soft middle aged med)

and dad bods look terrible in athleisurewear. Tailored clothes hide many of those flaws.

I believe there is a reason why structured/tailored clothes were so popular for so long, and it goes beyond just work attire. IT LOOKS BETTER.
a better fit flatters.
a better constructed garment hides flaws and accentuates the positives.

and this is the reason I remain optimistic tailored clothes (with a basis in classic menswear, even if a 2020’s iteration of such) will survive. (While also being realistic that a lot of Americans are simply slobs and will delve deeper into Lululemon and Nike trash.

and to reiterate:
I agree with the premise of people can be healthier. American diets and lifestyles are disgusting and as a society we have failed miserably in the health department. But I live in a society where dad bods are the norm and the fit 45 year old is the aberration (even among former athletes and even among guys that do go to the gym on occasion)

What I see, people call it skinny fat - little to no fat on arms\legs\etc, and most of it on a gigantic belly, a dad bod.
While I agree that dad bod body type looks better in a tailor clothes that try to hide a lot of that, I think that dad bod type looks even better in a typical biker gang member style - big beard, leather jacket and a Harley
Anyway, having a decent diet and walking 5k+ steps a day is enough to avoid it. It's not hard for anyone but Americans. Part of this is that American cities are designed like **** - you can move your ass around only on a car, there are simply no side walks for pedestrians 🤦‍♂️

 

[aj805]

I don't know why anyone would expect gen Z or future generations to care about what we call classic menswear. Not in their lifetimes has it been worn regularly except for among very select groups of people and then at work only.

At this point jackets, ties and leather shoes are for most basically ceremonial costume to be worn only for the most special and rare occasions, like I would guess a kimono might still be seen in Japan.

The entire cultural context which made dress significant no longer exists. People's lives no longer revolve around their participation and standing in a physical community that to a large degree was relatively cohesive, based on shared social customs and aspirations.

Look at any photo of a 'well dressed' person presented on this site, then imagine that guy walking down the typical western street like that, in his double-breasted worsted jacket with museum calf shoes, against a backdrop of McDonald's, 7-Elevens and slobs shuffling around in Star-Wars Ts, shorts and plastic slides. It's absurd.

We in this forum are weirdos who hang on to this style for one reason or another that has nothing to do with the real world.

 

[FlyingHorker]

I don't know why anyone would expect gen Z or future generations to care about what we call classic menswear. Not in their lifetimes has it been worn regularly except for among very select groups of people and then at work only.

At this point jackets, ties and leather shoes are for most basically ceremonial costume to be worn only for the most special and rare occasions, like I would guess a kimono might still be seen in Japan.

The entire cultural context which made dress significant no longer exists. People's lives no longer revolve around their participation and standing in a physical community that to a large degree was relatively cohesive, based on shared social customs and aspirations.

Look at any photo of a 'well dressed' person presented on this site, then imagine that guy walking down the typical western street like that, in his double-breasted worsted jacket with museum calf shoes, against a backdrop of McDonald's, 7-Elevens and slobs shuffling around in Star-Wars Ts, shorts and plastic slides. It's absurd.

We in this forum are weirdos who hang on to this style for one reason or another that has nothing to do with the real world.

I mentally used to not be a fan of @mossrockss ' look, but now I understand why Derek praises his style so much.

He looks natural and comfortable in his world, and he's wearing CM. I'd say that fits the definition of well dressed.

 

[brandonboot]

I’m pretty sure you should be targeting millennials and not gen Z about this topic don’t you think? … nvm gen Z is getting up there in age but gen z isn’t a zoomer. I’ll be pushing 30 soon, I wear what fits me I have a weird build… short&abnormally stocky so… I’m trying to be smart with what I wear. My proper length in denim would be like 27 inch inseam and I can’t find that anywhere so when I do find a pant that fits I cling onto it and buy it in every color.. I’d rather wear my north face belted pants or patagonia cords/hiking pants that are just labeled “small” in length over a nice pair of iron heart/RRL pants/jeans that are waaay to long but the materials are great cause then I’d look like a fool. I’m sure eventually I’ll figure it out but for now I wear clothes you guys would laugh at only cause they fit and also still go with leather boots but a hiking athletic aesthetic.. I can’t even pull off casual atm lol

 

[mossrockss]

I mentally used to not be a fan of @mossrockss ' look, but now I understand why Derek praises his style so much.

He looks natural and comfortable in his world, and he's wearing CM. I'd say that fits the definition of well dressed.

Thanks (?)!

What you see in that pic is what I wear 90% of the time when I'm in public. The other 10% of the time I'll still have everything on but the sportcoat, and it's usually because my kids are 3yo and 1yo so I don't want to get anything dry-clean-only dirty.

I was chatting with a friend of mine who is decidedly not into menswear. I explained to him my philosophy of the three-legged stool of clothes that "make you look good, feel cool, and express your style," and he interjected, "and be comfortable, that's the big one for me."

That comment came out of left field for my brain. It's not that comfort doesn't matter to me, but it's just not part of how I think about clothes—there is a lower threshold of comfort, and above that I don't think about it.

The issue with normies and in particular "zoomers" as I see it, is that jeggings/joggers/tees all the time means anything not stretchy feels uncomfortable. I get it! I work from home and wear joggers and a tee for the first 3-4 hours of my day.

But to me, I just simply prefer how tailoring looks—it's flattering, it makes me feel cool and it expresses my style.

I think classic tailored menswear is destined just to be more and more niche. The people into it who wear it regularly will be like me, who wear it on purpose for those reasons. and the politicians. But that is definitely a smaller market than it was 30 years ago.

 

[emptym]

As someone who teaches 18-21 year olds, I can sadly say that there is virtually nothing about that generation that is oriented towards a classic menswear look, at least in the setting (a university) where I have my most frequent interactions with, nor in the city at large (such as the local restaurants and such) surrounding it...

Oh, that's too bad. My students generally wear jeans and hoodies, but they're definitely interested in tailored clothing and leather shoes, particularly when I mention the environmental benefits of things like resoleable shoes. Once a year or so, a student or small group will tell me they want to get a job where they can dress like I do.

We had makeup graduation for the past two years last week, and I saw a quite a few former students dressed pretty well, mainly in SuitSupply. It's a step. There's hope. And there's more important things than clothes. But I agree with what @Scary_Grant wrote about younger people just not needing that kind of stuff and needing it later.

When I was in college, I dressed a lot like the students now for class. Like them, I had a sport coat or suit that I'd use for the occasional party, etc. The big difference is the decline in tuxedos imo. We would wear those 2-4 times a year for balls, and schools and other institutions don't seem to throw those much anymore. An exception is here, which backs @FlyingMonkey's point in another thread.

so why are you here? What are you trying to accomplish on a classic menswear forum?...

He's dragging people out of the cave (to use an expression @JFWR would appreciate). Truly. The proper response is gratitude, but like in the original, it's murderous thoughts.

 

[Spinster Jones]

The issue with normies and in particular "zoomers" as I see it, is that jeggings/joggers/tees all the time means anything not stretchy feels uncomfortable. I get it! I work from home and wear joggers and a tee for the first 3-4 hours of my day.

I just... don't get this sentiment. Friends always say the same thing. Wearing joggers, having them cling to your legs, your thighs or parts, gnissening against the fabric... why? I always feel more... robust? in heavier fabrics, such as woollens.

Isn't that also why people wear suits - as a 'personal' shield? Why should we let go off that? Why should everything become the same? Should we strive towards having that personal space?

 

[FlyingHorker]

Thanks (?)!

What you see in that pic is what I wear 90% of the time when I'm in public. The other 10% of the time I'll still have everything on but the sportcoat, and it's usually because my kids are 3yo and 1yo so I don't want to get anything dry-clean-only dirty.

I was chatting with a friend of mine who is decidedly not into menswear. I explained to him my philosophy of the three-legged stool of clothes that "make you look good, feel cool, and express your style," and he interjected, "and be comfortable, that's the big one for me."

That comment came out of left field for my brain. It's not that comfort doesn't matter to me, but it's just not part of how I think about clothes—there is a lower threshold of comfort, and above that I don't think about it.

The issue with normies and in particular "zoomers" as I see it, is that jeggings/joggers/tees all the time means anything not stretchy feels uncomfortable. I get it! I work from home and wear joggers and a tee for the first 3-4 hours of my day.

But to me, I just simply prefer how tailoring looks—it's flattering, it makes me feel cool and it expresses my style.

I think classic tailored menswear is destined just to be more and more niche. The people into it who wear it regularly will be like me, who wear it on purpose for those reasons. and the politicians. But that is definitely a smaller market than it was 30 years ago.

I wasn't a fan initially because it looked normal to me and would blend into the background, I don't think I'd notice it on the street.

Then I realized that's the point. It's wearing CM on the street and it looks natural, hence well dressed.

I buy into Simon idea, from Permanent Style, that comfort is also psychological. Jeans are stiff, hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and most of us still wear them anyway. That stiffness can be its own comfort and part of the overall look.

I agree that this is all destined to become more niche.