Frugality (aka no money) and Menswear

[maxalex]

Yeah, McMansions just reek of tackiness. I’d rather have one of the old Craftsman homes in Coronado than any of the big houses around me. Huge homes with zero architectural interest often speak to the commensurate personality of the owner.

Food? Give me a small meal at my favorite sushi place any day. I don’t need a 22 ounce tomahawk steak. 6 to 8 ounces of protein is plenty.

Now, as I wander into my dotage (just hit my fifties recently), im trying to figure out my clothing. Work attire is easy—suit and tie. It’s casual wear where I struggle to find something appropriate for my age, demeanor, and the pleasure I still get watching American football at a dumpy bar.

I recommend Elliot Richardson lookalike Derek Guy’s website dieworkwear for great casual clothing inspiration. (He’s on this thread.) But in general there are more great choices in casual wear today than ever. Lots of it comes from Japan; lots of it isn’t cheap. But deals can be found, and again Derek pays close attention to it.

 

[maxalex]

I disagree on food, house and clothes. If someone live by this philosophy, all I imagine is a pathetic life.

I suppose apathy is in the eye, but I don’t see anything pathetic about living in a small, “jewel box” home that is exquisitely appointed, as opposed to a sprawling pseudo mansion framed in glue-lam and sheathed in plastic. But to each his own.

 

[Sartorially Striving]

Well over 90% of the items in my wardrobe are less than $90. I'm willing to spend $180 on a two piece suit and $270 on a three piece. I make exceptions occasionally for boots and outerwear, but not often. The $90 limit does not include tailoring which I drop a pretty penny on from time to time. I spend a lot of time on eBay looking for deals. They're out there, that they will cost you in time to find. Most importantly, figure out what your style is all about. Don't waste money on fads and trends. #menswear or otherwise. Lastly, find a good tailor. They can sometimes take good items to great. Good luck.

Can I ask you to expand on what you’re looking for on eBay and how you find deals to the extent you don’t mind sharing? I’ve been fairly convinced most things in an auction process get bid up to market value unless the seller screws up and spells the name of the designer wrong or something like that.

I’ll echo your comment about a good tailor. I found a gentleman by the name of Tam references here a bit ago. Dropped off two suits and a pair of slacks (two used, one NWT, all from eBay) to be tailored. I’ve got high hopes.

While he was writing me up, I was perusing a samples book he gave me. If the suit mods go well, I may have him make me a suit. OEM love to have a nice three piece suit with a full back vest.

 

[Gus]

I think the real key is to have a razor sharp picture in your head of what you want your overall look to be and go for that and ONLY that. Don't get sidetracked by anything else just because of a brand name or something that "looks cool". Lets say you want a nice dark suit. Choose something simple and classic like solid navy or grey (no patterns, stripes or other colors). Picture the exact style and color of shoes (simple black or brown), shirt (white, blue, no patterns) and simple tie to go with it including pocket square (white) and socks (same color as suit). Do the same for a sport coat and trousers. For trousers probably medium grey for a first pair.

Fit is everything. Make sure it fits great in the shoulders. The waist can always be taken in.

My brother in law did this as a broke college student and put together one killer suit and sport coat outfit shopping sales, closeouts, etc. A relative grumbled "Where did he get all of that money!"

 

[Sartorially Striving]

I think the real key is to have a razor sharp picture in your head of what you want your overall look to be and go for that and ONLY that. Don't get sidetracked by anything else just because of a brand name or something that "looks cool". Lets say you want a nice dark suit. Choose something simple and classic like solid navy or grey (no patterns, stripes or other colors). Picture the exact style and color of shoes (simple black or brown), shirt (white, blue, no patterns) and simple tie to go with it including pocket square (white) and socks (same color as suit). Do the same for a sport coat and trousers. For trousers probably medium grey for a first pair.

Fit is everything. Make sure it fits great in the shoulders. The waist can always be taken in.

My brother in law did this as a broke college student and put together one killer suit and sport coat outfit shopping sales, closeouts, etc. A relative grumbled "Where did he get all of that money!"

That's awesome. Good for him.

What's your thought on margin for error on shoulders? I'm guessing on experience it's a half inch wide easy. Narrow is a problem.

Same thing on slacks. I'm about 37x30 and anything short of 36 waist or 30 length I pass on. More than a couple inches bigger is a pass also. Just can't persuade myself that taking in the full length of the slacks is worth it. I've opened up slacks in the past and the fabric that had never seen the light of day was really obvious.

 

[Gus]

That's awesome. Good for him.

What's your thought on margin for error on shoulders? I'm guessing on experience it's a half inch wide easy. Narrow is a problem.

Same thing on slacks. I'm about 37x30 and anything short of 36 waist or 30 length I pass on. More than a couple inches bigger is a pass also. Just can't persuade myself that taking in the full length of the slacks is worth it. I've opened up slacks in the past and the fabric that had never seen the light of day was really obvious.

There is no margin for error on shoulders, either they look and feel good or you pass. Period. This is why buying things without a full return policy is a no go for a guy like you. You can't and shouldn't take the risk. You are broke, you don't have "risk" money.

As far as trousers, there are always good quality pants on sale in size 36, but don't think that you won't have to have them altered a bit. Plan on altering the length and maybe even the waist. Every manufacturer of size 36 trousers has a different actual fit. If you are going to have one killer suit and sport coat and trousers you don't want them baggy, too long or falling off your hips. You have "one chance to make a good impression".

You wouldn't buy a steak and eat it raw? Buy a suit/trousers and get it tailored to fit your body, the way YOU like it. Never stick to a brands fit.

 

[FlyingHorker]

It has forced me to be more choosey in what I buy and take a less is more approach, maximize versatility and crossover in my wardrobe. Reading more blogs and browsing stylish people's instagram has helped me develop an eye for what I can experiment with, and I also look to replicate looks for much cheaper. The forums are a great help with that.

I also view my own style as a neverending path, so it's better to buy a few very decent things a year that I know I will continously wear.

Diminishing returns as well. Allen Edmonds shoebank sales on deep discount will more than suffice for shoes for me, and I rarely get to wear a suit anyway, so I focus more on casualwear.

Spier & Mackay was the brand I was going to mention as well. I would groan when people mentioned J. Crew or Brooks Brothers to me when I wanted stylish items. It's great that I have access to them now.

Also, DWW posted an article that is a great read for you OP

http://dieworkwear.com/post/168587465864/on-hating-cheap-things

"but nowadays, when you’re buying clothes, the design is more likely to give out than the construction. If something is red hot one year, there’s a chance you’ll get tired of it once everyone has the same thing. That, in the end, is the real problem with fast fashion"

So keeping that in mind, I still frequently wear my Gap fatigue jacket in fall, and my maroon cardigan from Forever 21. I've had them for 3 years, and they're not showing any signs of falling apart, they're staple parts of my wardrobe.

Also recommend browsing r/frugalmalefashion

 

[Sartorially Striving]

There is no margin for error on shoulders, either they look and feel good or you pass. Period. This is why buying things without a full return policy is a no go for a guy like you. You can't and shouldn't take the risk. You are broke, you don't have "risk" money.

As far as trousers, there are always good quality pants on sale in size 36, but don't think that you won't have to have them altered a bit. Plan on altering the length and maybe even the waist. Every manufacturer of size 36 trousers has a different actual fit. If you are going to have one killer suit and sport coat and trousers you don't want them baggy, too long or falling off your hips. You have "one chance to make a good impression".

You wouldn't buy a steak and eat it raw? Buy a suit/trousers and get it tailored to fit your body, the way YOU like it. Never stick to a brands fit.

Wait. What? I love steak tartare. Buy a good piece of meat at my local butcher (same family since the 1800’s, same location since the 1970’s), chill it, chop it.... Nectar of the gods.

But more seriously, because steak tartare is awesome, really, there is room for slop in the shoulders IMHO. Maybe it’s just me, but my posture varies and a quarter inch per side plus or minus comes out in the wash. No? Half an inch per side you could sell me on, but at some point you hit the OCD line.

Just IMO and I’m nowhere near the level of sophistication of many here—but it’s like adjusting the valves on a motorcycle. As long as it’s in spec, it’s good.

 

[SuitedDx]

For those of us who are in, let's say, the lower income bracket, how do you handle your desire for style, menswear pieces, suits, etc, trying to balance quality and cost, and not being able to get stuff that looks great cause sometimes... you just can't afford it?

Something I've noticed over the past couple of years as I've tried to clean up my act, change my life, get ahead in life, etc, is just the sheer cost that comes with trying to look and dress better. Now of course, we save money to get quality stuff that will last a long time, that goes without saying, but it often feels like (at least to someone who isn't steeped into the whole menswear game besides buying stuff from the GAP during Black Friday) that a lot of the cool, interesting, unique suits, clothes, shoes, gear tends to be priced extremely high, enough that there's a psychological kneejerk reaction to the cost of luxury goods.

Now of course, there are brands that cater to guys in lower income brackets. I've gotten two phenomenal suits from Spier and Mackay for under $300 each and it's definitely the best investment I've made in terms of clothes this year. SuitSupply has the Napoli Line, there are overseas companies that can do custom leather/shoes, etc etc. But at the end of the day, if you're not making enough money where you can spend a **** ton on clothes and other goods that are all a part of style and menswear, and you see other people wearing 2K suits and 1K shoes and carrying $700 briefcases, how does that make you feel and how does it impact your purchasing/style/shopping habits?

I don’t think just because you admire or aspire for something you need it now. The whole psychological drive is to move forward and develop. I work in a professional environment where I don’t necessarily NEED to wear suits, but most days I do because I like it. Depending on where I’m at most are in scrubs/coats and my peers and patient do comment on how sharply I dress, which works well in establishing trust as a provider. Most of my suits are OTR and my shoes are RTW. Would I jump on bespoken suits from SR and shoes from JLSJ? Of course! It’s a nice fantasy but my clothing reality is more than adequate for me; however, I can appreciate, not envy, good clothing on others in hopes to maybe pick up some in the future.

You don’t need to look better than everyone else as this is not a competition. Just be comfortable in what you can obtain now and worry about the fancier stuff later down the road.

 

[An Acute Style]

Can I ask you to expand on what you’re looking for on eBay and how you find deals to the extent you don’t mind sharing? I’ve been fairly convinced most things in an auction process get bid up to market value unless the seller screws up and spells the name of the designer wrong or something like that.

I’ll echo your comment about a good tailor. I found a gentleman by the name of Tam references here a bit ago. Dropped off two suits and a pair of slacks (two used, one NWT, all from eBay) to be tailored. I’ve got high hopes.

While he was writing me up, I was perusing a samples book he gave me. If the suit mods go well, I may have him make me a suit. OEM love to have a nice three piece suit with a full back vest.

I use www.auctionsniper.com. I put in the price I want to pay and forget about it. I really like Buy It Now and Make an Offer options. I usually low ball around 10% or 20% off and they often accept or counter offer. I have many saved searches and I check they regularly. I look for everything: shirts, pants, sport coats, suits, ties, etc. I narrow the search based on brands I like, price, and my size.

 

[CloudLi]

Yeah, McMansions just reek of tackiness. I’d rather have one of the old Craftsman homes in Coronado than any of the big houses around me. Huge homes with zero architectural interest often speak to the commensurate personality of the owner.

Food? Give me a small meal at my favorite sushi place any day. I don’t need a 22 ounce tomahawk steak. 6 to 8 ounces of protein is plenty.

Now, as I wander into my dotage (just hit my fifties recently), im trying to figure out my clothing. Work attire is easy—suit and tie. It’s casual wear where I struggle to find something appropriate for my age, demeanor, and the pleasure I still get watching American football at a dumpy bar.

I suppose apathy is in the eye, but I don’t see anything pathetic about living in a small, “jewel box” home that is exquisitely appointed, as opposed to a sprawling pseudo mansion framed in glue-lam and sheathed in plastic. But to each his own.

Your response has no logic behind it at all, and clearly you do not know anything about house or food. Only give you 1 ounce of finest foe gras each day instead of 3 meals of salad and sandwich, let's see whether you can live a week or two. You can choose the life of sharing one bedroom and washroom with a 8 people family in a house that build of gold, that is also your choice. Or you can ask your girlfriend, whether she wants the same Hermes dress to wear every day or different CK dress for the rest of her life.
Plus, as a house builder, I must tell you. Small house is lower in value, so no builder will use good material for small house. In the contrary, big million dollar mansion always use good material as people who can afford that kind of a big house deserve the better material construction.
People holding this kind of philosophy are simply stupid. You never and never will live in a million dollar house, so you pathetically console yourself that you appreciate you fine "little" home. Why don't you open your eyes and try to get more and better things for your life?

 

[powerkicker]

Thrift store and eBay.

 

[maxalex]

Your response has no logic behind it at all, and clearly you do not know anything about house or food. Only give you 1 ounce of finest foe gras each day instead of 3 meals of salad and sandwich, let's see whether you can live a week or two. You can choose the life of sharing one bedroom and washroom with a 8 people family in a house that build of gold, that is also your choice. Or you can ask your girlfriend, whether she wants the same Hermes dress to wear every day or different CK dress for the rest of her life.
Plus, as a house builder, I must tell you. Small house is lower in value, so no builder will use good material for small house. In the contrary, big million dollar mansion always use good material as people who can afford that kind of a big house deserve the better material construction.
People holding this kind of philosophy are simply stupid. You never and never will live in a million dollar house, so you pathetically console yourself that you appreciate you fine "little" home. Why don't you open your eyes and try to get more and better things for your life?

Actually I know more about food and houses than clothes, having written and edited books on both subjects as well as worked for years on the American PBS television series This Old House. Your viewpoints are conventional and unsurprising; it’s how most builders think. I think differently.

 

[dieworkwear]

I buy my foie gras second-hand off eBay

 

[Sartorially Striving]

Your response has no logic behind it at all, and clearly you do not know anything about house or food. Only give you 1 ounce of finest foe gras each day instead of 3 meals of salad and sandwich, let's see whether you can live a week or two. You can choose the life of sharing one bedroom and washroom with a 8 people family in a house that build of gold, that is also your choice. Or you can ask your girlfriend, whether she wants the same Hermes dress to wear every day or different CK dress for the rest of her life.
Plus, as a house builder, I must tell you. Small house is lower in value, so no builder will use good material for small house. In the contrary, big million dollar mansion always use good material as people who can afford that kind of a big house deserve the better material construction.
People holding this kind of philosophy are simply stupid. You never and never will live in a million dollar house, so you pathetically console yourself that you appreciate you fine "little" home. Why don't you open your eyes and try to get more and better things for your life?

That’s a very strange way to approach the issue. Very black and white. Either 1 ounce foie gras or 3 salads and sandwiches per day. No middle ground in there?

There's nothing wrong with the argument of quality over quantity, the extreme you posted aside.

A small house may be lower in price, but don't conflate price with value. They're radically different concepts. Take this lovely piece of work here:

It's got square footage on its side, though it's completely out of scale to the parcel and the surrounding homes. I would go so far as to guarantee unsavory characteristics of the person who built it.

Now how about this little place:

That is a beautiful house. And while you might argue to the contrary, I think there's more pride of workmanship and craftsmanship (and ownership!) in that house than in that ghastly McMansion by far.

The idea that no builder will use good materials in a small home is absurd on its face. Does DR Horton put Viking appliances in entry level homes? Of course not. And yes, they're value-engineered. But having toured countless homes over the years, I can tell you that bling in a high end home isn't indicative of quality anymore than the bling here is:

Money can buy stuff. It can't buy taste. Granted there are a lot of people who don't have taste and don't care to acquire it. It can be argued that is OK. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not an aficionado of the Pimp My Ride aesthetic.

Oh. And being a home builder doesn't automatically confer expertise. My dad had a house built in the Santa Fe style. His GC contracted with a roofer to build the flat roof. The roofer looked at the plans for the scuppers and asked, "What's a 'scooper?'"

Needless to say, the roof leaked.

I buy my foie gras second-hand off eBay

FYI, if you have Canadian Geese migrating through your neighborhood, you can get it free range at local parks.