Edward Green Appreciation: Pictures, Info, and Where to Buy

[JohnMRobie]

As for the other points: part of the reason eg and other higher end rtw shoemakers are worth buying is quality construction. Why invest in a high end shoe if it's made to be thrown out? I don't think just the aesthetics matter here, nor does the name matter by itself.

Eg makes beautiful and well crafted shoes. If you take away the well crafted, comparable aesthetics can be readily had elsewhere.

Personally, the method of construction is probably the least important reason to upgrade from something like an entry level GYW brand to a high end GYW brand since in reality the construction is the most similar piece between say EG and an entry level GYW brand like AE or Meermin.

 

[reidd]

Personally, the method of construction is probably the least important reason to upgrade from something like an entry level GYW brand to a high end GYW brand since in reality the construction is the most similar piece between say EG and an entry level GYW brand like AE or Meermin.

Indeed. GYW is GYW. Same machine and process whether AE or EG. You pay up for EG for all the other lovely details. Beautiful lasts, the best leather, classic styles, finishing details. All well worth paying the premium for IMO.

 

[Sutefan]

I would like to take the opportunity to address the fact that one pair of shoes per hide, that I often see repeated, is a utopia. Not even a bespoke maker would do that, unless the leather is in terrible shape in the first case.
Any maker has the responsibility to use as much as the materials as possible, and not allow unnecessary waist. I would be deeply disappointed if I found a good maker only getting a single pair from a hide. Be it bespoke or RTW.

 

[emptym]

The picture is from a repairshop (here), it was just the most zoomed in I could find quickly. The channel is grooved by a machine, it's fairly easy.

That depends on your gait, some people wear down the center of their soles first, some people the sides (which deteriorate the stitching very quickly on Dainite)


Every double soled shoes I personally resoled (including C&J and EG) had a leather or leatherboard midsole. However I think rubber midsoles are a thing, in wedge soles for instance. I have no idea what kind of cement they use but it's a much larger area to hold things together.


Stitched rubber soles are so ubiquitous that I would imagine industrial makers have the right machinery to avoid breaking too many needles in the process but I'm just guessing here.

Ah, I didn't realize that you repaired shoes yourself. You mentioned the groove is easy to cut. That's if you have the machine, right? I wonder why it's so uncommon then. EG, C&J, and AS hand grades all seem to be stitched aloft. Is the machine rare, or can it be done on the same machine that cuts the groove in a leather sole? And if so, is cutting a channel in Danite the same degree of difficulty as cutting one in leather, or does one take more skill and/or effort?

To quote their website:

All Goodyear welted shoes & boots are 100% made in Northampton, England. Slippers & Driving shoes are outsourced to specialist manufacturers.

So, in light of that I think it's fair that's what she meant.

Thanks for that. So neither in the letter nor on the website, do they affirm that all of their shoes or boots are GYW.

As for the other points: part of the reason eg and other higher end rtw shoemakers are worth buying is quality construction. Why invest in a high end shoe if it's made to be thrown out? I don't think just the aesthetics matter here, nor does the name matter by itself.

You were right with the first bolded part but may have returned to hyperbole or foolishness with the second. IOW, I agree that part of the reason shoes like EG are worth buying is quality construction. But GYW is not the only aspect of quality construction. There are many other factors, some of which I listed earlier. GYW is simply on many guys minds because it's such an important part of many shoemaker's marketing. EG makes many shoe models that are not GYW. But they are still "quality construction" or "well-crafted," not "garbage" or "made to be thrown out." Don't get me wrong. I like GYW and would prefer it over any other method except for handwriting and maybe Blake-rapid. But it is not the be-all, end-all of quality construction.

I also will say choosing the choicest bit of the hide is only an issue if the hide is flawed enough to make a difference. The concerns with lower tier shoes is spotty detailing, not usually flaws in the calf. Ae quality issues usually come from the Dr stitchers not doing good work, but the calf is normally quite nice

Compare two contemporary skins from the same tannery and there is not a huge difference. Generally that only shows up in different years. Calfskin on vintage aes and florsheims used to be finer, from probably older and more toxic methods and even climate. My 88 ae Chesters are insanely nice, probably for a number of reasons.

Age of the cows matter also. German calf is nicer as veal comes from younger cows there. This, c and j handgrade calf is somewhat finer than it's benchgrade from France.

I don't frequent the AE thread much, but there's definitely a good amount of complaints about upper quality in the Meermin thread. Years ago, before Meermin existed, Loake and Bexley (a French shoemaker) were prob. the darling bargain brands on the forum. Common wisdom was to buy their suede shoes but not their calfskin/leather models, as the uppers just weren't as nice as on more expensive brands. I would agree AE's shoes from 20-30 yrs ago had almost the same quality of upper leather as contemporary EGs, but as a few people's posts earlier indicated, very few if any think contemporary AE's leather compares favorably to contemporary EGs. And it doesn't seem fair to compare old AEs to new EGs, as hides do seem to have declined in quality over the years. I'm not sure why. @DWFII has written a bit about this.

I would like to take the opportunity to address the fact that one pair of shoes per hide, that I often see repeated, is a utopia. Not even a bespoke maker would do that, unless the leather is in terrible shape in the first case.
Any maker has the responsibility to use as much as the materials as possible, and not allow unnecessary waist. I would be deeply disappointed if I found a good maker only getting a single pair from a hide. Be it bespoke or RTW.

Interesting. For years, various members have written on the forum that EG, Lobb and maybe others get one pair per hide. A quick google search shows places saying EG gets 2-3 pairs per hide, such as here. I wonder how many pairs other companies might get. @ntempleman mentions that bespoke makers waste about 70% of a hide.

In any case, I hope you're right, as I do care about the potential environmental concerns of not using all of the hide. I'd assume they sell what they don't use or use it themselves in other ways, such as testing patterns. What's the basis of your assessment, if you don't mind?

 

[florent]

Ah, I didn't realize that you repaired shoes yourself. You mentioned the groove is easy to cut. That's if you have the machine, right? I wonder why it's so uncommon then. EG, C&J, and AS hand grades all seem to be stitched aloft. Is the machine rare, or can it be done on the same machine that cuts the groove in a leather sole? And if so, is cutting a channel in Danite the same degree of difficulty as cutting one in leather?

Working rubber soles with handtools is an absolute PITA in general, so yes I was talking about machine work. I don't know why makers don't carve a groove on rubber soles. It's an extra step in the process so that may be cutting corners, but then why not doing the same with leather soles? No idea...

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

I would like to take the opportunity to address the fact that one pair of shoes per hide, that I often see repeated, is a utopia. Not even a bespoke maker would do that, unless the leather is in terrible shape in the first case.
Any maker has the responsibility to use as much as the materials as possible, and not allow unnecessary waist. I would be deeply disappointed if I found a good maker only getting a single pair from a hide. Be it bespoke or RTW.

I can confirm this has been my experience as well. I'd add that if a maker is unable to fulfill a minimum of pairs made with that "special" hide they will commonly refuse the commission. One hide per one pair of shoes is wishful thinking.

 

[Sutefan]

Interesting. I hope you're right, as I do care about the potential environmental concerns of not using part of the hide. I'd assume they sell what they don't use or use it in other ways. @ntempleman mentions that bespoke makers waste about 70% of a hide. What's the basis of your assessment, if you don't mind?

Maybe one pair/hide is an exaggeration. I don't know if I'm mis-remembering and invented the one pair per hide number or if I got from somewhere else, as a quick google search shows a few sources highlighting that EG gets 2-3 pairs per hide, such as here. I wonder how many pairs other companies might get.

I'm sure there's a of rubbish that cannot really be used, like the sides. I hope this is effectively used for linings and such,though.

Today I brought a hide i bought years ago to my favourite maker. It's a rather small hide, and he told me he'd definitely get two pairs out of the hide, as long as it's not boots. The regular hides he has are much larger, and may have twice the "good surface" of this one.

Have been to several bespoke makers where it's obvious there are more than one pair cut from a hide. Even more so at the factories I've visited. Both England and Italy. 2-3 pairs at EG sounds likely, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're able to get one extra from certain leathers.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Maybe one pair/hide is an exaggeration. I don't know if I'm mis-remembering and invented the one pair per hide number or if I got from somewhere else, as a quick google search shows a few sources highlighting that EG gets 2-3 pairs per hide, such as here. I wonder how many pairs other companies might get.

Depends on the size of the hide and the shoe being constructed. A 22 sq ft hide can yield 4 pairs. If they are a smaller sized shoe and a loafer, I'm sure Meermin or AE can produce 5 pairs from that same hide (adding bits and pieces from often discarded unfavorable pieces that is).

 

[reidd]

Cordovan is typically one pair per hide though correct? Since they can only use the hindquarters.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

I should add I am referring to a calfskin hide which are smaller than a cow hide. Also, you have to factor in that from the aforementioned 22 sq ft., say 5.5 sq ft of that is wastage since you have irregularities in the shapes of hides or just not usable.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Cordovan is typically one pair per hide though correct? Since they can only use the hindquarters.

In fact, one Horween cordovan hide is probably not (highly unlikely) enough for one pair shoes/boots.

 

[emptym]

Working rubber soles with handtools is an absolute PITA in general, so yes I was talking about machine work. I don't know why makers don't carve a groove on rubber soles. It's an extra step in the process so that may be cutting corners, but then why not doing the same with leather soles? No idea...

That makes sense. So is the channel making machine different for rubber soles as for leather, or the same for both?

I'm sure there's a of rubbish that cannot really be used, like the sides. I hope this is effectively used for linings and such,though.

Today I brought a hide i bought years ago to my favourite maker. It's a rather small hide, and he told me he'd definitely get two pairs out of the hide, as long as it's not boots. The regular hides he has are much larger, and may have twice the "good surface" of this one.

Have been to several bespoke makers where it's obvious there are more than one pair cut from a hide. Even more so at the factories I've visited. Both England and Italy.

That's very interesting and helpful. Thanks. I've done a little more reading and a few sources seemed to agree that 4 is the max, but there are hides that couldn't even produce one pair of high end shoes, so 2-3 pairs per hide or even 1 may be the average for high end shoes.

Cordovan is typically one pair per hide though correct? Since they can only use the hindquarters.

Or less. I've never bought leather and given it to a maker, but a shoemaker I commissioned some shell loafers from suffered an injury that ended her career before she could finish my shoes. She gave me the shells and my last, but I haven't had them made up yet. This was about 10 yrs ago. Anyone know anyone who might be able to finish a pair of shell loafers?

I should add I am referring to a calfskin hide which are smaller than a cow hide. Also, you have to factor in that from the aforementioned 22 sq ft., say 5.5 sq ft of that is wastage since you have irregularities in the shapes of hides or just not usable.

^Yeah, I'd assume we're only talking calf here. Which less than a year old, no? So sad.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

That makes sense. So is the channel making machine different for rubber soles as for leather, or the same for both?

That's very interesting and helpful. Thanks. I've done a little more reading and a few sources seemed to agree that 4 is the max, but there are hides that couldn't even produce one pair of high end shoes, so 2-3 pairs per hide or even 1 may be the average for high end shoes.

Or less. I've never bought leather and given it to a maker, but a shoemaker I commissioned some shell loafers from suffered an injury that ended her career before she could finish my shoes. She gave me the shells and my last, but I haven't had them made up yet. This was about 10 yrs ago. Anyone know anyone who might be able to finish a pair of shell loafers?

^Yeah, I'd assume we're only talking calf here. Which less than a year old, no? So sad.

Yes that is true. You will need to have two Horween hides for the one pair.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

^Yeah, I'd assume we're only talking calf here. Which less than a year old, no? So sad.

Yes sir. Less than a year. 🤷‍♂️

 

[jazz11man1]

I picked up a pair of Galways in dark oak calf and mink suede, but am considering exchanging them for the pair with cognac cordovan and snuff suede. Based on the images on EG's site, I like the color of the snuff suede and the contrast with the cordovan, but have not seen them in person.

I'm curious what people think about the cordovan Galways and whether they are worth the price difference.