E-commerce providers/platforms

[MetroStyles]

I am starting an online selling business on the side. I would like to set up a platform for e-commerce - you know, secure handling of credit card transactions, that sort of thing. Examples include Google Checkout, Yahoo, etc. There are even some open source e-commerce platforms such as DashCommerce (recently discontinued) and osCommerce.

If any of you have started a commercial website that sold products, I'd like to hear about your experiences with different providers. I am looking to balance stability/security/support with price. I do not plan on more than 25-100 transaction per week at most, so I really do not need any kind of customized solution for large businesses. In fact, I will only be selling 1-3 different products at first. Simple is good here.

So:

1) Has anyone had experience with the open source platforms, and how has it been?
2) Has anyone had experience with the low-cost providers?
3) Does anyone know some good options to check out that may fall into my low-cost category, aside from the ones I mentioned? There are tons out there, but I'd preferably like to go to a reputable source that other people can vouch for instead of doing a blind google search.

Thanks.

 

[Piobaire]

No experience, but started preliminary research more than once. GoDaddy seems like just the thing for you.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

No experience, but started preliminary research more than once. GoDaddy seems like just the thing for you.
I already have my site up with bluehost, as it offered certain features I liked better than godaddy's at a more competitive price. I'd also like to design my own website, but have the e-commerce portion as a separate part of it. In other words, I'd rather not host my domain with the e-commerce provider, but instead would like to keep the two separate. But thanks for the reply, Pio.

 

[Kent Wang]

Do not use osCommerce and any derived products like Zen Cart; it is incredibly outdated. I use Magento. No matter what solution, you're gonna have to pay a developer to customize it for you. I did it all myself, because I've doing web development for over a decade, but the amount of work I put into it, I would've charged a client at least $1000. Granted, I'm pretty picky. I think Sam Hober is also using Magento.

Howard Yount uses Shopify. They provide a lot more services for you, such as hosting, but they also cost more and take a percentage of your sales. So, starting out this might be a good solution, but it's not the cheapest in the long run.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

 

[el duderino]

I agree w/ Ken about not using an osCommerce or osC derived solution. The codebase is pretty bad and while they are working on a new version, 3.0, the final release date seems to be a moving target.

Don't be fooled by open source projects being free. Like Ken said, you are going to have to end up paying for a web developer whether the shopping cart software is free or not. And depending on the skillset of said developer, you may even need to hire someone to handle the front-end coding (HTML/CSS) in addition to an application developer who would handle the back-end/database code. While you may not care how someone codes a front-end of the site (the stuff you see when you View Source a page), writing clean code and using semantic markup will benefit you in the long run for search engine optimization and page load times.

Even then, paid software may not meet your needs or the code quality may be bad to begin with. You should really be asking these questions to the developer you are working with. If they can't explain to you the pros/cons of various solutions, then find someone else.

Also, I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the distinction of payment gateways vs e-commerce software as you mentioned Google checkout in your original question. Things like Google Checkout, Paypal, Authorize.net are payment gateways that allow you to process credit card transactions securely. In addition, you will need to get a merchant account to settle your transactions. Typically you pick your merchant account first, and they usually provide or support specific gateways to integrate into your e-commerce solution.

As far as hosting providers go, don't skimp. You get what you pay for. If your business actually gets popular and you have a good amount of traffic, cheap hosts like Bluehost, Dreamhost, won't cut it at the end of the day. And Ken mentioned Magento, an open source cart software, and I haven't touched it since their final 1.0 release was made, but the performance was pretty awful when I tested it out. In addition, it was using Zend Framework components which I've used a lot, and it is not a lightweight framework to begin with.

Feel free to ask any more questions, I could seriously go on and on about this topic as I've done a lot of e-commerce work using pre-existing (open source and paid) as well as building ground up implementations.

 

[MetroStyles]

Kent/Duder,

Thanks so much for the in depth responses. They were more than I was hoping for.

I understand both of you seem to have much more technical experience than I do - however I can design a nice-looking website despite not having an extensive coding/developing background. I would have no idea how to code for accepting transactions, etc.

Thing is - this is a small thing on the side for me. I'd be surprised if it brought in $1000 in the first month. The last thing I want to do is spend $1000 on someone to develop the e-commerce part of it for me. However it appears from your replies that the opensource method is not the best idea.

I should re-iterate that I am only selling 1 or 2 products and that I do not need anything fancy. I'm not sure what "customization" would mean in this case as I already have a website up and running with my own templates, etc. Did you mean customization of the "enter CC and billing info / confirmation" pages? Do most of these providers not allow for me to insert the checkout into my own template as is?

Originally Posted by el duderino

Also, I'm not sure if you are fully aware of the distinction of payment gateways vs e-commerce software as you mentioned Google checkout in your original question. Things like Google Checkout, Paypal, Authorize.net are payment gateways that allow you to process credit card transactions securely. In addition, you will need to get a merchant account to settle your transactions. Typically you pick your merchant account first, and they usually provide or support specific gateways to integrate into your e-commerce solution.

By merchant account - I assume you mean something with a bank or online (generally cheaper). A merchant account would not require much technical work right? Basically you set it up, and then connect it to the payment gateway...right?

Regarding popularity, traffic, and server overload - that is a problem I would love to have, really. If it ever comes to that I'll be more than happy to upgrade. But for now, this is on the side and my goal is to make it as hands off as possible (manufacturing, labeling, fulfillment will all be outsourced after a few weeks of proven success). It can be simple because it is selling a simple product.

I know that cutting corners always hurts in the long run. But please bear with a newbie here - is all I need:

a) A merchant account from somewhere
b) A payment gateway

Where are starting places to look for reliable but inexpensive merchant accounts? And I am assuming the examples I brought up earlier are payment gateways. Are none of them simple plug and play? Do they all require tons of customization. I know that best practices dictate "yes". But I see so many awful sites out there with online transaction functionality - these people must have utilized a simple resource because they are clearly too dumb (awful design & content) and too cheap (awful design) to have splurged.

I just need a mechanism that works. I don't need bells, whistles, or web design, as I can take care of that on my own. I've compared my amateur-built, one-day-job website to my competitors and I am positioned as good or better presentation-wise.

Thanks again for reading - you guys are great.

 

[Kent Wang]

If it's just a few items, you can use the single item checkout that PayPal and Google Checkout have. It generates all the code for you and you just drop it on a website. Easy peasy.

I wouldn't go with a payment gateway until you hit over $1500 in revenue per month. Until then, PayPal is easier.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

If it's just a few items, you can use the single item checkout that PayPal and Google Checkout have. It generates all the code for you and you just drop it on a website. Easy peasy.

I wouldn't go with a payment gateway until you hit over $1500 in revenue per month. Until then, PayPal is easier.

This is for the gateway - I would still need to set up a merchant account somewhere, right? Do Paypal and Google Checkout allow for customization of the page template? Thanks.

 

[coldarchon]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I am starting an online selling business on the side. I would like to set up a platform for e-commerce - you know, secure handling of credit card transactions, that sort of thing. Examples include Google Checkout, Yahoo, etc. There are even some open source e-commerce platforms such as DashCommerce (recently discontinued) and osCommerce.

use ruby spree:

http://spreecommerce.com/demo


and Im doing web development for over 2 decades ..

 

[Kent Wang]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

This is for the gateway - I would still need to set up a merchant account somewhere, right? Do Paypal and Google Checkout allow for customization of the page template? Thanks.
No, they're the gateway and the merchant account. You can put the checkout button on any webpage, but when going through the checkout process it's going to be on their site with their layout, though you can put your logo in the upper left corner.

 

[Sam Hober]

MetroStyles, Kent is giving you very good advice - just go with a PayPal shop it will make life simple in the beginning. Although you need to check that they will have the sales tax support that you need. This is an example of "Bells & whistles" that you will probably soon be interested in and not have the time or interest in doing yourself. Once you grow a bit you can get a merchant account, payment gateway & shopping cart software. Almost any host is OK for the first couple of months to test your idea, although I would very strongly suggest one with 24 hour support. After your idea works you will need a "VPS" or dedicated hostimg account that is fully managed again with 24 hour support. El Duderino gives you good advice. Stay away from GoDaddy and other low cost hosts you get what you paid for. Shared hosting is only OK for your testing period it is not as safe as dedicated accounts. Merchant accounts that are linked to payment gateways are easier to work with again you want 24 hour support. Shopping cart software is interesting, as has been pointed out free software is not really free unless you are good at coding. We have never found shopping cart software that we really like not because of features lacking but because upgrades and security fixes can be a headache. Many people like Magneto the cart that Kent mentions but we have never used it as it is too slow for us and not user friendly. Note my coding skills are weak. We are currently working on our own custom built shopping cart that will fit our needs perfectly. Good luck with your new business and let us know how it works out.

 

[coldarchon]

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

Shopping cart software is interesting, as has been pointed out free software is not really free unless you are good at coding.

We have never found shopping cart software that we really like not because of features lacking but because upgrades and security fixes can be a headache.

and another reason for ruby spree ..

 

[fredfred]

If you can make a website look good on your own, do that - and add the paypal buttons. You do not need a merchant account. Paypal in effect, is your merchant bank.

All you do is sign up with paypal and put the customized buttons on your website. Then when people pay you get a "you got money" email from paypal. You can sweep the money into your regular bank checking account, get a check mailed to you or whatever.

People like me somewhat prefer paypal on an "obscure" ecommerce site (no offense meant) as then I do not have to give my credit card info to the vendor. I just use paypal and keep my cc info "safe".

They take around 3% of each transaction. This is slightly higher than 2.5% (or so) you'd pay with a credit card (visa/master card) merchant acct.

The paypal method is very simple to implement, if you know how to paste html code into your website. (otherwise you'll not be able to do it).

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by coldarchon

and another reason for ruby spree ..
I just now looked at Spree and it may be OK for a first simple site but it would not work for an ongoing store with more complex needs unless you know how to code yourself. For example you would need to have the feature "Order on behalf of" this feature allows you to look up a customer and then log in as if you were that person and make the order for them. When you have regular customers that are in a hurry or not comfortable with computers this feature is essential. There are a number of similar features that Spree and most free shopping carts do not have. So as others have stated unless you are running a very simple shop or know how to code very well and very fast these carts are not free and actually very expensive.

 

[el duderino]

MetroStyles, I should have prefaced my reply to say that the items I mentioned are things you should be aware of, not stuff you need to take care of right away. For you just starting out, like others have stated, Paypal and Google Checkout will probably suffice to handle your transactions.

However, keep in mind things like Paypal Buy Now buttons are rudimentary and the checkout/add to cart process is through their site and not seamless which can be annoying to users. In addition, if you actually have inventory to keep track of, the manual cut and paste Buy Now buttons aren't going to cut it as you would have to remove/add those buttons manually as items go in and out of stock. The values also are all stored in plain text which could be modified by a saavy person so they could easily add something to the Paypal cart at a lower price than you may be charging. It would be up to you to implement some sort of script to verify the price isn't tampered with if you went that route.

Regarding the solution of checking out Ruby spree, not the crap on other languages, but I would hesitate to recommend a RoR solution to someone who is just starting out. It's enough of a headache to find people to handle coding tasks in Ruby, let alone the different hosting environment that RoR solution would require. And I'm not saying any other language would be better, like PHP for example, as there are tons of PHP "coders" who would never be able to get a job in a real agency or should be allowed to write code in the first place. The software chosen should be based on the developer working on the project, because it's no good if he can't make modifications or find someone who is familiar with RoR.

And to re-iterate Sam's point about eventually having to go custom, I find this always to be true. There's no way to build a fully modular shopping cart to handle the myriad business rules that are required by various sellers. Just as an example, the widely used osCommerce lacked tracking of variants of an item, which is a critical and basic e-commerce function. The fact there was no SKU mapping to variants just shows how they had no clue how the real world functions. Even super expensive e-commerce platforms have shortcomings you wouldn't believe. So it's really about making sure the software you choose meets the requirements you need.