Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[LA Guy]

this is your covfefe moment

I had the draft correct. Not sure what happened, but basically, a lot of hobbyists of anything will complain about prices, and scarcity, and look down on people who do normal things like go into stores and buy things that are available, rather than go through some difficult process the signifies belonging. It’s pretty typical for people to gate-keep this way. Basically, you ostensibly have to earn your way in.

I find the attitude pretty dumb. We are at the end of the day just buying things and trying to look cool - it’s not something that requires years of rigorous training and education to even get started, but everyone likes to feel special.

 

[Zamb]

The vibes are so toxic among fashion 'fans'. I was at Rick Owens NYC two days ago. I said I loved the vibe and got some fun stuff while I was there. I worked with Jacob and he was so cool.

A LOT of people were against I got stuff at full retail. Not that it actually matters but I wasnt just buying tees. I only got one tee and actually got something in black leather which sometimes doesnt go on sale. The prevailing sentiment seemed to be I should have tried stuff on irl, bought nothing, and then tried to find the pieces for as cheap as possible online.

This seems so toxic. Im sure as **** not above buying stuff on sale online. I just bought a ton of various crap in the ssense sale. Also in store a piece might be cool but they dont have my size in which case ill try to find my predicted size online. But if i actually like and fit a piece I try on in store I always buy it then and there. Anything else just feels dirty and exploitative. Sales associates need to get commission and retail locations are expensive.

If you dont have extra money why are you buying this ****. Fashion is supposed to be fun, not make me feel bad for exploiting the time of nice dudes like Jacob . Or Tom at Atelier.

People want "designer" clothes at H&M and Shein Prices

this is why I have said before and will say again that I HATE grailed and I hate the professionalization of selling second hand clothing


People want to buy stuff, get free shipping (it costs the retailer you know) and when they want to return, the retailer should provide a free return label...

People are now skeptical of what prices are. i dint mind looking for the best deal, but expecting businesses to pay good wages, rent in expensive neighborhoods, to put on fashion shows, pay good salaries and health insurance, while people exploit them is ridiculous.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

this is why I have said before and will say again that I HATE grailed and I hate the professionalization of selling second hand clothing

There's many things to be annoyed at in fashion (especially Shein et al.) but being annoyed at the second-hand market – really? Doesn't that indicate a move away from fast-fashion and transience and towards sustainability and appreciating the long-term value of well-made and good-looking things? If your clothes find a place in the second-hand market, it's precisely because they aren't like Shein and that their quality is recognised.

I buy second hand because I can't afford new clothes of the kind I like. Some people can. They appear to tire of them eventually and then I can benefit. I am not buying those second-hand clothes instead of buying the equivalent new. I am buying them instead of buying nothing, or buying cheaper, less sustainable new clothes that I don't really like.

And if you are living in places like I do, you can't, as you can in London, New York or Tokyo, just pop down to your local vintage and second-hand boutique and find great stuff. So I have to use online sites.

 

[RedVelvetWounds]

People want "designer" clothes at H&M and Shein Prices

this is why I have said before and will say again that I HATE grailed and I hate the professionalization of selling second hand clothing

Let's not forget that there's a bit of a gray area between the €2500 retail Rick leather and the €400 Rick leather on second hand platforms. I don't think it HAS to be either of the extremes as having a buyer for both is good.

 

[Zamb]

There's many things to be annoyed at in fashion (especially Shein et al.) but being annoyed at the second-hand market – really? Doesn't that indicate a move away from fast-fashion and transience and towards sustainability and appreciating the long-term value of well-made and good-looking things? If your clothes find a place in the second-hand market, it's precisely because they aren't like Shein and that their quality is recognised.

I buy second hand because I can't afford new clothes of the kind I like. Some people can. They appear to tire of them eventually and then I can benefit. I am not buying those second-hand clothes instead of buying the equivalent new. I am buying them instead of buying nothing, or buying cheaper, less sustainable new clothes that I don't really like.

And if you are living in places like I do, you can't, as you can in London, New York or Tokyo, just pop down to your local vintage and second-hand boutique and find great stuff. So I have to use online sites.

Ill come back to this later as im with my kids

I'm not against the second hand market
Im agaimst the PROFESSIONALIZATION of it

I liked it better when passionate peers sold and traded clothes among each other on styleforum, superfuture, stylezeitgeist etc

I don't like big businesses involved and the approach that reduces garments to the lowest common denominator.

 

[nyarkies]

I think the secondhand clothing market creates shoppers or thrifters that won't become established customers for these designers themselves. Instead, they're established customers of grailed, Vestiaire, etc. It's the mindset that the secondhand market can create in certain people (or have created in a lot of people) where they see the product set at a certain value because that's how much they can get it or bought it regardless of every other aspect that went into making these items. When they see the retail price or even sale price, they're not going to buy. A designer label owned by a large conglomerate will most likely be fine without them but for a small business owned designer label with less margins, it's a significant loss.

Although, I won't put the fault entirely on these selling platforms either if we're talking about clothing reduced to its lowest common denominator. There are other factors that play into it like the lowest price the seller sets it at or the buyer that doesn't bother to know more about the product.

I'm sure sustainability is the last thing in the minds of most secondhand clothing shoppers. It's definitely the bargain first and honestly I can't fault them given how cost of living has gone up so badly and income has not for majority of the people. It's a whole other aspect that's been discussed here previously.

I think what will help whether it is sustainability, overconsumption, inequality, etc. is contentment. Contentment in what you have that you're not seeking to keep consuming just because you can and want to. Contentment in the profits made that you're not seeking more and more where in turn the people that are part of the process are getting less and less or taken advantage of and resources are depleted.

 

[double00]

I think the secondhand clothing market creates shoppers or thrifters that won't become established customers for these designers themselves. Instead, they're established customers of grailed, Vestiaire, etc. It's the mindset that the secondhand market can create in certain people (or have created in a lot of people) where they see the product set at a certain value because that's how much they can get it or bought it regardless of every other aspect that went into making these items. When they see the retail price or even sale price, they're not going to buy. A designer label owned by a large conglomerate will most likely be fine without them but for a small business owned designer label with less margins, it's a significant loss.

Although, I won't put the fault entirely on these selling platforms either if we're talking about clothing reduced to its lowest common denominator. There are other factors that play into it like the lowest price the seller sets it at or the buyer that doesn't bother to know more about the product.

I'm sure sustainability is the last thing in the minds of most secondhand clothing shoppers. It's definitely the bargain first and honestly I can't fault them given how cost of living has gone up so badly and income has not for majority of the people. It's a whole other aspect that's been discussed here previously.

I think what will help whether it is sustainability, overconsumption, inequality, etc. is contentment. Contentment in what you have that you're not seeking to keep consuming just because you can and want to. Contentment in the profits made that you're not seeking more and more where in turn the people that are part of the process are getting less and less or taken advantage of and resources are depleted.

personally speaking i use the thrifts to identify local potters and then i buy directly from the makers , i think your conclusions about thrift customers are more projection than anything else tbh

i also totally disagree that contentment is the answer , material culture arises from discontentment , what is the saying about necessity and mothers ?

 

[nyarkies]

personally speaking i use the thrifts to identify local potters and then i buy directly from the makers , i think your conclusions about thrift customers are more projection than anything else tbh

i also totally disagree that contentment is the answer , material culture arises from discontentment , what is the saying about necessity and mothers ?

Projection on my part? If that's what you mean, I can't agree. I am referring to clothing and fashion in general anyway so I can't say anything about your pottery buying. Your practice doesn't really apply to a person thrifting for a 5-zip thinking they can go to the manufacturer to buy directly. I go to grailed for stuff that I have missed from older collections that I wasn't previously aware of and not to get a bargain on the most recent trends.


I don't know what that saying is. I said contentment will help. I didn't say it's the answer.

 

[double00]

Projection on my part? If that's what you mean, I can't agree. I am referring to clothing and fashion in general anyway so I can't say anything about your pottery buying. Your practice doesn't really apply to a person thrifting for a 5-zip thinking they can go to the manufacturer to buy directly. I go to grailed for stuff that I have missed from older collections that I wasn't previously aware of and not to get a bargain on the most recent trends.


I don't know what that saying is. I said contentment will help. I didn't say it's the answer.

wares are wares . anyone can absolutely apply thrift knowledge to retail markets regardless of category .

in fact just today somebody posted a coat in the thrift thread to confirm it was made by cantarelli . the idea that secondhand markets don't inform primary markets is simple ignorance .

the saying is 'necessity is the mother of invention' in other words today's problems are tomorrow's solutions . discontentment is the answer .

 

[nyarkies]

wares are wares . anyone can absolutely apply thrift knowledge to retail markets regardless of category .

in fact just today somebody posted a coat in the thrift thread to confirm it was made by cantarelli . the idea that secondhand markets don't inform primary markets is simple ignorance .

Ok. Now that they know it's made by Cantatelli, did that person go to Cantarelli or a retailer to buy a coat from them or are they sticking to thrifting Cantarelli coats? I didn't say that secondhand markets don't inform primary markets.

the saying is 'necessity is the mother of invention' in other words today's problems are tomorrow's solutions . discontentment is the answer .

Ok. Necessity is a keyword here. I think you mean that discontentment to today's problems is key to tomorrow's solution. Because if it's a problem without solution today, most likely I still consider it a problem tomorrow. Lol! I'm not sure this applies to accumulation of material wealth or clothing if we're sticking to the topic. If I'm discontented with the 10 pants I own, should I buy an 11th pair? Will that be the solution and finality of my problem? Or should I pivot my mindset to see the 10 pants meet my necessity and find contentment in them. There's nothing wrong with wanting or desiring though. That's part of us but how much do we have to have to satisfy that desire? I'll stop here because I can see myself veering off topic.

 

[double00]

Ok. Now that they know it's made by Cantatelli, did that person go to Cantarelli or a retailer to buy a coat from them or are they sticking to thrifting Cantarelli coats? I didn't say that secondhand markets don't inform primary markets.



Ok. Necessity is a keyword here. I think you mean that discontentment to today's problems is key to tomorrow's solution. Because if it's a problem without solution today, most likely I still consider it a problem tomorrow. Lol! I'm not sure this applies to accumulation of material wealth or clothing if we're sticking to the topic. If I'm discontented with the 10 pants I own, should I buy an 11th pair? Will that be the solution and finality of my problem? Or should I pivot my mindset to see the 10 pants meet my necessity and find contentment in them. There's nothing wrong with wanting or desiring though. That's part of us but how much do we have to have to satisfy that desire? I'll stop here because I can see myself veering off topic.

as i've stated i've personally bought from makers after thrifting examples , there is hardly a categorical difference between the plates i eat off and the clothes i wear , i'm sure i could come up with a clothing example all the same .

in any case markets are communal and the evidence you are soliciting is naive .

***

so far as necessity you have gone back to lowest common denominator . i personally subscribe to highest and best use , which is a big reason why i resell , and not as a hobby but as a component of a larger practice , you could even call it professional . i've donated things to archives etc .

anyways if you think secondary markets are obsolete then ... prove it ? supreme's entire valuation when it sold to vf was based on secondary value . what is your solution

i'll edit this to add i think the american pottery scene rn is a model of a reasonably healthy fashion market , earnest buyers and sellers meeting to deal a mix of everyday wares along with art wares and in between , out of materials pulled from more or less refined local earth

 

[nyarkies]

as i've stated i've personally bought from makers after thrifting examples , there is hardly a categorical difference between the plates i eat off and the clothes i wear , i'm sure i could come up with a clothing example all the same .

in any case markets are communal and the evidence you are soliciting is naive .

That's you and that's good. I'm sure there are examples with clothing. I can include myself to that. But do you believe this is the common practice for the majority especially with people following trends in clothing?

anyways if you think secondary markets are obsolete then ... prove it ? supreme's entire valuation when it sold to vf was based on secondary value . what is your solution

I'll try to prove it... once you've pointed out where I said that l think secondary markets are obsolete.

 

[hendrix]

There's a difference between the second hand market (used clothes) and the second chance market (grailed, stockx etc), the latter of which tries to capitalise on the hype of limited runs and exclusivity.

Nowadays I'm impressed when brands don't feel the need to price their product into the stratospheric range. That shows confidence. Of course, that is all relative and I'm probably just numb to it all.

 

[double00]

I'll try to prove it... once you've pointed out where I said that l think secondary markets are obsolete.

uh you wrote a whole paragraph explaining that you believe second hand markets created a consumer unable to perceive primary value , your very thesis is inefficiency .

 

[nyarkies]

uh you wrote a whole paragraph explaining that you believe second hand markets created a consumer unable to perceive primary value , your very thesis is inefficiency .

That doesn't make it obsolete. You're misinterpreting my intent. It does create that mindset though. Never did I claim a totality which seems how you interpret what I posted. Just have to look at grailed. Anecdotal but I've tried selling an unused new with tags jacket at around 20% less SRP. I would get inquiries of selling it at way below 50% of the SRP because based on prices sold for used pieces, that's where they are valued at. Tried to reason with them but they're set at that range. Happened a few times.