Custom Suiting Toronto

[teecube]



I agree. I hate other people question my proficiency. And a trusted relationship with tailor should be essential to make a bespoke garment. But there should be a fine line between suggestions and expressing needs rather than manage every details. I should be able to ask whether the tailor set shoulder by hand, if not, is he capable of doing that for a higher price points.

I don't think anything is wrong with asking the tailor to set in shoulder pads by hand or getting buttonholes done by hand. It's not about checking his proficiency, this is about client preference. Besides, is this what bespoke is all about? Clients should be able to ask tailors to add on some options and willing to pay for the extra works.

 

[greger]

You guys thinking too much here. How many mtm salesman know anything about making coats? Shoulder pads, what do they know about that? A salesman has very little say in coat construction. Most probably have no say at all. The reason why, most are not tailors.

Bench made coats are made by real tailors. Where not talking about factory workers here. The skill and knowledge level is far higher. Not even the general alterations tailors have these skills and knowledge. There are some real tailors who do alterations work, but that is a number of steps below their skill and knowledge level. So many people and companies are trying to cash in on something they are not.

 

[scatterbrain]



I don't think anything is wrong with asking the tailor to set in shoulder pads by hand or getting buttonholes done by hand. It's not about checking his proficiency, this is about client preference. Besides, is this what bespoke is all about? Clients should be able to ask tailors to add on some options and willing to pay for the extra works.

Asssuming you are going to a real tailor who has been working for years to develop his skills and knowledge, I think of a tailor as being like a well-established chef. Styling choices are personal, like saying "I would like something spicy". Saying how much you are looking so spend on a meal is fine. Asking about the ingredients is fine.

But if you're going to tell a tailor how to make the suit, it's like going back into the kitchen and telling that chef how much heat to apply to a steak or how to slice the vegetables.

I think it is insulting to the tailor's skills. Edit: nothing wrong with buttonholes. That's a normal thing.

 

[CloudLi]



You guys thinking too much here. How many mtm salesman know anything about making coats? Shoulder pads, what do they know about that? A salesman has very little say in coat construction. Most probably have no say at all. The reason why, most are not tailors.

Bench made coats are made by real tailors. Where not talking about factory workers here. The skill and knowledge level is far higher. Not even the general alterations tailors have these skills and knowledge. There are some real tailors who do alterations work, but that is a number of steps below their skill and knowledge level. So many people and companies are trying to cash in on something they are not.

I don't understand what you are trying to say

 

[CloudLi]



Asssuming you are going to a real tailor who has been working for years to develop his skills and knowledge, I think of a tailor as being like a well-established chef. Styling choices are personal, like saying "I would like something spicy". Saying how much you are looking so spend on a meal is fine. Asking about the ingredients is fine.

But if you're going to tell a tailor how to make the suit, it's like going back into the kitchen and telling that chef how much heat to apply to a steak or how to slice the vegetables.

I think it is insulting to the tailor's skills. Edit: nothing wrong with buttonholes. That's a normal thing.

One tailor can offer $1500, $2000, $2500 mtm, $3000, $4000 bespoke, just because not everyone can drop $4000 on a suit. The tailor is not going to spend same amount of time on the $1500 suit and $4000 one. In this case, one definitely should ask the difference between each level and decide what he wants. On the other hand, some tailors only do $4000 bespoke, they hand make canvas from hair. It is not appropriate to say that I don't need hand made canvas just use existing ones and lower your price.

 

[CloudLi]

B

You guys thinking too much here. How many mtm salesman know anything about making coats? Shoulder pads, what do they know about that? A salesman has very little say in coat construction. Most probably have no say at all. The reason why, most are not tailors.

Bench made coats are made by real tailors. Where not talking about factory workers here. The skill and knowledge level is far higher. Not even the general alterations tailors have these skills and knowledge. There are some real tailors who do alterations work, but that is a number of steps below their skill and knowledge level. So many people and companies are trying to cash in on something they are not.

BTW, Kiton suits are made in factory, not made by "real tailor ".

 

[dappercanadian]



B
BTW, Kiton suits are made in factory, not made by "real tailor ".

Wrong. They're made in a factory full of real tailors.

 

[breakaway01]

One tailor can offer $1500, $2000, $2500 mtm, $3000, $4000 bespoke, just because not everyone can drop $4000 on a suit. The tailor is not going to spend same amount of time on the $1500 suit and $4000 one. In this case, one definitely should ask the difference between each level and decide what he wants. On the other hand, some tailors only do $4000 bespoke, they hand make canvas from hair. It is not appropriate to say that I don't need hand made canvas just use existing ones and lower your price.

This wasn't your original point. Of course if a tailor specifically offers different levels of construction then you are free to ask about the differences among them and choose for yourself. Your original point was this:

Quote:
that is, that you wanted to tell the tailor which parts of the jacket you wanted hand-finished and which parts you wanted machine made. Several other posters have pointed out that this might not be a great strategy, or at the very least, that you should be careful and diplomatic in how you ask the question. You can take our advice or leave it. You might also want to read this as I think it's not dissimilar to what you were originally asking about.

 

[CloudLi]

This wasn't your original point. Of course if a tailor specifically offers different levels of construction then you are free to ask about the differences among them and choose for yourself. Your original point was this:


that is, that you wanted to tell the tailor which parts of the jacket you wanted hand-finished and which parts you wanted machine made. Several other posters have pointed out that this might not be a great strategy, or at the very least, that you should be careful and diplomatic in how you ask the question. You can take our advice or leave it. You might also want to read this as I think it's not dissimilar to what you were originally asking about.

Well, my original point is to upgrade some handwork. I never said there are parts need to be made by machine, but there are parts must completed by hand. In a better world, a tailor should give hundreds options to customer whether made by hand or machine. In reality, it is okay to ask more, but not good to ask less.

 

[CloudLi]

Wrong. They're made in a factory full of real tailors.

I actually have no idea, my fault. But I remember someone on this forum actually opened a Kiton jacket. All the inter-lining, canvas, connections are done by machine. Someone made a conclusion that Kiton only do things on the surface, not much difference with other full-canvas suits with some handwork. It is what I read, I do not know.

 

[othertravel]

I think Kiton does hand padded lapels. But yes, I think someone said they're semi-machine made, with some excellent handwork.

Tom Ford also offers a handmade MTM option for an extra 50% on the price.

 

[gs77]



I actually have no idea, my fault. But I remember someone on this forum actually opened a Kiton jacket. All the inter-lining, canvas, connections are done by machine. Someone made a conclusion that Kiton only do things on the surface, not much difference with other full-canvas suits with some handwork. It is what I read, I do not know.

Go to some places that carry Kiton and try their jacket on. Things will be a lot clearer.

 

[othertravel]



Go to some places that carry Kiton and try their jacket on. Things will be a lot clearer.

+1 I once tried an Attolini and the silhouette was remarkable.

Remember, you're not just paying for handmade details - there are many cheaper options for that. But you're also paying for the work done by some of the best cutters in the business. Kiton, Attolini and Zegna Couture are successful (and expensive) because they look like what a perfect suit should look like.

I have one Zegna Couture piece that I bought on heavy discount from the outlet, and the fit and silhouette is unlike anything else I have.

 

[gs77]



+1 I once tried an Attolini and the silhouette was remarkable.

Remember, you're not just paying for handmade details - there are many cheaper options for that. But you're also paying for the work done by some of the best cutters in the business. Kiton, Attolini and Zegna Couture are successful (and expensive) because they look like what a perfect suit should look like.

I have one Zegna Couture piece that I bought on heavy discount from the outlet, and the fit and silhouette is unlike anything else I have.

This. And also the feel when you're wearing it. Drape, the way you can move, comfort... There are few Italian houses that do this at price point lower then Kiton or Attolini (Pal Zileri does it for me), but you will not get this from random suit maker with a bit of hand work.

After one Kiton and three Attolini jackets in my closet, expectations are high.

 

[greger]

Kiton and other top mtm companies have been having problems finding people with real tailoring skills for a decade or two. How interested are they in making there own. When you talk to old Italian tailors they started when they were small children, with no pay. So many countries apprentices started very very young. In the 50s, 60s and maybe the 70s some schools had classes where 13 years olds could start. To pay fumble fingers is unreasonable. The apprenticeship needs to start in childhood and finish in childhood.

So many factories use people with very little skill. YouTube is a great place to see the incredible machines. Jigs, or computerized means the factory workers have less hand skills than those of the past. If the the mtm company doesn't have a factory that makes drape, or whatever you want, then they can't offer it, and asking won't help. Some mtm companies, even in fit, offer very little, much more than anything else.

Real tailors do bench made. The more skill and knowledge he has the more he can do. Here you can read, or make, from this book. Https://archive.org/details/pdfy-6x5RRDlrC8nRAeWc And there are other books with some different methods. If you ever try to make start with pants. Coats are way too involved, not to mention, time. Basic learning errors you want on pants (further from the eyes). But, looking at these various books helps you understand some of the process of making clothes, and you might ask, less silly questions. Factory made with all the jiggs and computerized machines is very different.