Cesare Attolini Appreciation Thread

[Professor Χάος]

im not a lawyer so i cannot represent you and i dont know if i would let my lawyer to do so , but i have in my company for disputes lawyers and i know what im talking about. I always have this EU laws to be implement in the description for over 6 years now. So online description from the officials we take them very seriously, and its a dispute lawsuit in the UE

My apologies, but I did not understand any part of this post. Hence, you will forgive me if I don't respond.

 

[fatpauljackson]

Actually, thinking about it logically, can CA make 9000 hand-made suits with 130 tailors per year at 25 - 30 hours per suit? 9000 * 30 hours = 270,000 man hours per year. Divide by 130 = 2077 hours per tailor. Assume 250 working days per year, that's 8.3 hours per day.

So simplistically speaking, I take back what I said in one of my earlier posts. It seems very possible for CA to produce as much as it does even if much of it is by hand.

 

[fatpauljackson]

Based on my experience, CA offers a wide range of fabrics to choose from, and my guess is that if you desire something not in their current oeuvre, they will find it for you.

Who are the fabrics from? You mentioned some from the UK, which are the mills or do they not share this for some reason? Like could you be getting Fox Brothers or whatever but they re-brand it as their own? Or do they just say pick a fabric from this Huddersfield bunch?

 

[Johnny80]

Yes, at some of the now bad houses on Savile Row (will refrain from naming names) they no longer make a truly custom pattern for you and it's just designed off a standardized block pattern. All my best makers do not do this, they craft a truly bespoke pattern for me.

I am wondering and asking whether CA will actually make a truly customized pattern based off of a customer's body aka real bespoke. So far no one has been able to answer. I'm going to ask Massimo who runs the Milan store after the break, but my impression so far is that CA does not do this.

No, if you want a specific combination of pattern+fabric CA has to source it. So, maybe it is possible if they talk with their source mill but they depends on 3d party mill. Again, i bet almost nobody has so much combinations as Kiton, i could made a strange teal blue snake pattern from super s280 wool. If you can draw your pattern preference they can make it in cashmere or any type of wool that starts from super s160 to maybe 280

 

[fatpauljackson]

No, if you want a specific combination of pattern+fabric CA has to source it. So, maybe it is possible if they talk with their source mill but they depends on 3d party mill. Again, i bet almost nobody has so much combinations as Kiton, i could made a strange teal blue snake pattern from super s280 wool. If you can draw your pattern preference they can make it in cashmere or any type of wool that starts from super s160 to maybe 300

Oh I see what you are saying now, you aren't talking about a pattern as in the bespoke suit pattern for your body. You are talking about the pattern literally of the fabric.

I am wondering if CA makes bespoke suit patterns for YOU as in for the fit of the suit. But good to know that they can make fully customized fabric patterns.

 

[Johnny80]

Oh I see what you are saying now, you aren't talking about a pattern as in the bespoke suit pattern for your body. You are talking about the pattern literally of the fabric.

I am wondering if CA makes bespoke suit patterns for YOU as in for the fit of the suit. But good to know that they can make fully customized fabric patterns.

Yes, the fabric pattern. CA can make any body patterns for you, but their comfort place is their Neapolitan style, drop 7. If you want that straight roman structure suit i would go to Brioni or UK tailors. Or if you like french style fit Cifonelli is a nice place with great people

 

[Professor Χάος]

Actually, thinking about it logically, can CA make 9000 hand-made suits with 130 tailors per year at 25 - 30 hours per suit? 9000 * 30 hours = 270,000 man hours per year. Divide by 130 = 2077 hours per tailor. Assume 250 working days per year, that's 8.3 hours per day.

So simplistically speaking, I take back what I said in one of my earlier posts. It seems very possible for CA to produce as much as it does even if much of it is by hand.

Yes, I made a similar calculation, but you're presuming that each worker possesses equal tailoring expertise. Instead, like any operation that wishes to scale their enterprise, the suit making process is based on specialized tasks, so its unlikely that one person is working on a single garment from A to Z. Perhaps Massimo can help us gain deeper insight into their production process.

 

[Gttrf822]

I'm not sure how much Attolini's MTM service costs, but I'm guessing if you offered them $15K, they would provide bespoke service. If not, other bespoke tailors in Naples probably cost $5-$10K. Attolini is now a global brand, so we're paying a premium for that. At discount isuit prices, we're receiving a high end sewing machine-made suit, but I can't justify paying bespoke prices for that.

I actually had a question for all you Attolini experts out there. I can acquire an Attolini from Italy at a steep discount in my size, but its drop 4. The drop of a suit is supposed to be the difference between the chest and the waist. In this case, the tagged size is 41 and the pants are 37. I was planning to buy it and reduce the pants by 2 inches and trim the torso if necessary. Does the a drop 4 also mean the body will be roomy? Do you think my plans are feasible?

I bought an Attolini from iSuit during the last set of auctions, but it was royal blue, super 150s. There was some intense bidding, but I managed to win the auction. For those of us who do not have immediate access to an Attolini boutique or don't want to spend $5,000 - $7,000 for an Attolini, iSuit is a great resource. I plan to buy 2-4 more suits from iSuit in 2023, to round out my collection. They also have an excellent offering of Kitons, at reasonable prices compared to the rest of the market.

Regarding sizing, one has to be careful with their template. Its better to contact them directly and ask them to measure the suit you're interested in, since the actual measurements tend to differ from the published template.

How does your second-hand CA suddenly become your bespoke? You clearly have no idea of the bespoke pricing or experience. Mainline CA are mostly handmade, the pieces you bought off eBay or other outlets were made to lower specs (not for retail).

 

[Professor Χάος]

How does your second-hand CA suddenly become your bespoke? You clearly have no idea of the bespoke pricing or experience. Mainline CA are mostly handmade, the pieces you bought off eBay or other outlets were made to lower specs (not for retail).

That wasn't bespoke. Genius. That was an AUS model, which is largely machine made.

Why don't you stick to what you know, instead of making preposterous assumptions that make you look like a fool.

 

[Professor Χάος]

How does your second-hand CA suddenly become your bespoke? You clearly have no idea of the bespoke pricing or experience. Mainline CA are mostly handmade, the pieces you bought off eBay or other outlets were made to lower specs (not for retail).

The CA suit I bought from iSuit is NWT. In fact, the tag is still attached.

You claim there's a difference in production quality between CA "mainline", whatever that means, and suits bought on "ebay or other outlets". That presumes first, that you have collected a representative sample of CA garments bought from ebay and various outlets. Have you done so? If not, then how do you speak with such authority and make such broad generalizations?

Secondly, if indeed there's a difference in production quality between CA "mainline" and CA suits distributed to outlets, then that supports the contention CA does not maintain a universal production standard for all of their suits, and that in fact, some CA suits maybe largely machine made.

Any more brilliant comments?

 

[othertravel]

In terms of exclusive high-end fabrics, Moxon has a storied reputation:

Moxon - Home

www.moxon.co.uk

 

[Johnny80]

So this dispute, as everybody but one knew already can come to an end.
And mod can clear some of the posts on here

 

[DenisDnepr]

I have got the response from CA about some doubts of our members regarding hand work.
Yhe question was:
Dear Sirs
I have a few RTW jackets and suits made by Cesare Attolini. I wonder if the canvas (chest piece and lapels) is hand-padded and shaped to create a natural curvature by hand in RTW tailorings?

The answer is:
Yes of course , we made the same job on all jackets .
Best wishes

So, I think someone should stop spreading misinformation.

 

[MrAristocat]

Great suit!

Your post made me curious, so I searched all over the jacket again and managed to find the fabric tag inside the tiny inner pocket. It turns out mine is a super 160's wool, drop 7, bemberg lining. That's the good news. Bad news is that I tried it on and realized I had alterations to make to the trousers (I'm a drop 10), so fitting pics will have to wait until the new year.

I did snap some photos of the jacket itself, the inner tag/trouser label, and the shoulder. Yours seems to have slightly more shoulder roping than mine, but the lapels, buttons, and cuffs are all similar.

Wow, this is s gorgeous suit! Thanks for sharing the pics and the added details. You are right on the differences/similarities. Drop 10 - wow! Good luck with the alterations, hopefully should be easy to taper, and may you enjoy wearing it for many years to come!

 

[MrAristocat]

To add to the discussions here from my own experience - I now own four CA suits, two with the older Sartoria Attolini label (like the one I posted a photo of) and two more recent AUS models. To my eye and subjective comfort feeling, they are all without a doubt largely handmade. The older ones are definitely MTM or bespoke as they have the name of the person they were made for on the inside labels and they have all the handmade details I can discern comparable to my bespoke commissions. To me they luckily came new with tags and basting stitches. The new ones I also managed to get new and unworn, but sold at a local tailoring shop sale by a father-son duo no longer wearing suits much. These may be MTM too, but I don’t know for sure - there are no names on the tags, and they seem to me similar to the RTW suits I have seen in stores recently, but the handmade details are all there including the hand-padded lapels. I have those only on a special Brioni I managed to snatch a few years back, a Sartoria Castangia, and my bespoke pieces (1 Roman, 1 Neapolitan). All four of my Attolini suits have hand padded lapels, hand-attached collars, hand-inserted sleeves, etc. and in terms of comfort I could likely dance the kazachok in them if my leg muscles could manage. In addition to this, I have handled dozens of CA suits and SCs when I was coveting them and waiting for the day I could afford them over the years. I obviously cannot guarantee, but I have never seen a CA suit that didn’t blow me away with softness and comfort and those very clearly handmade details. If they make lower-quality garments, I have not encountered one, from high end shops to outlet centres to thrift shops. All Attolinis I have ever seen have only been top notch quality and doubtless largely handmade. This is the finest garment that I know of outside top-level bespoke and I am blessed that the sizes 48 and 50 both fit me really well with my weight fluctuations, so I look forward to getting more Attolinis in the future.