Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

[Johnny80]

It seems quite contradictory: is it possible to have a low gauge but tightly knit sweater? I can figure in increasing the number of plies.

No. In general lower GG will be a higher ply number, a more weighted garment. In general 1 ply to be as warm as possible because of its light weight it is made by higher GG. You can have low gauge with low ply number but its not sustainable from profit margins. Nowadays a high GG with 1 ply are in many countries the go for knit for all seasons

 

[DorianGreen]

Well, not so hard because the parameters of the exercise were given and Colombo (we know that you are quite fond of them) was not there!

I read with interest your reply, please do check the parts that I made bold and the following description of Mr. P:

View attachment 2075155


They characterize it as "slim-fit", which is consistent with exactly what you've wrote and,... we came back to the long discussion on the need of precise measurements.

But my dear @Johnny80, again, your answer pivots around fitting properties and aesthetics; I would very much like to read about the difference in the quality of the two garments (Oxton & Belmondo), and a comparative valuation. Sorry for using a jargon from my professional field, but aesthetics is not everything, and was definitely not what I've asked.

I believe that this comparison can only be useful if it goes far beyond the slim vs the robust gentleman, or personal preferences; perhaps when you'll have some more spare time.

Thank you nonetheless.


Best,

Dimitris

Dear Dimitris, don't know if this helps: I don't own any Oxton rollneck, but some Vee necks, and I would say that they are a good and balanced fit, as they are quite tapered on the waist, so rather different from the traditional, more roomy style. Maybe the style was updated in recent times, my purchases are all relatively recent. Making, finishing and detailing are top in my eyes. Don't know about the Colhay's Belmondo, but would assume being top level as well.

 

[DorianGreen]

No. In general lower GG will be a higher ply number, a more weighted garment. In general 1 ply to be as warm as possible because of its light weight it is made by higher GG. You can have low gauge with low ply number but its not sustainable from profit margins. Nowadays a high GG with 1 ply are in many countries the go for knit for all seasons

Yes, I know, usually high gauge means 1 or 2 plies (also 4-ply yarn is used sometimes), low gauge means more plies. Usually low gauge also means loose(r) knit: I wonder if it's possible to have a low(er) gauge tightly knit (or it would be too chunky and heavy). Which could be the gauge of a 12ply shawl cardigan and how tight knit would it be?

Edit: Well, it seems I found an answer myself. Looking at Colhay's I watched accurately this Submariner Rollneck, 4-ply 8 gauge: it looks pretty tightly knit. Also pretty heavy at 580 grams.

 

[Johnny80]

Well, not so hard because the parameters of the exercise were given and Colombo (we know that you are quite fond of them) was not there!

I read with interest your reply, please do check the parts that I made bold and the following description of Mr. P:

View attachment 2075155


They characterize it as "slim-fit", which is consistent with exactly what you've wrote and,... we came back to the long discussion on the need of precise measurements.

But my dear @Johnny80, again, your answer pivots around fitting properties and aesthetics; I would very much like to read about the difference in the quality of the two garments (Oxton & Belmondo), and a comparative valuation. Sorry for using a jargon from my professional field, but aesthetics is not everything, and was definitely not what I've asked.

I believe that this comparison can only be useful if it goes far beyond the slim vs the robust gentleman, or personal preferences; perhaps when you'll have some more spare time.

Thank you nonetheless.


Best,

Dimitris

Between an slim-fit William Lockie turtleneck/rollneck and Colhays , i would chose the Colhays. William L know how is in shawl normal fit cardigans, regarding slim-fit turtleneck they are ok, but you place them out from their usual routine and they will try to come up with a good knit (remember they are a small business with few machineries and artisans but they build for so many people/designers).
It is a difference in cut for their slim to their normal knits, they take their basic pattern and they strengthen on the chest and waist to come up with slim fit, but when you do that you stretch the fibres and you will end up with a knit that can no longer sustain you for years to come especially if you gain some weight (remember, just some weight)
Now, a true slim fit garment are based on separate "skeleton/pattern" different from normal fit. Colombo has at least 3 skeletons(but they can afford since they dont build for others, just in house). William Lockie has one and from there adapt for what other labels wants.
If you have a proper slim fit skeleton from the start...people even if they gain some weight there is still a bit of room for the garment not to be stress when wear it day by day.Is like putting english bespoke suit makers to do Italians fit and finish and vice versa...you take them out of their routine/know how and you see it in the final stage, cut.
Another advantage if you have slim fit skeleton is that you can reach to more body types..because if are not true slim fit man, you always can go one size up and the shape will still remain good enough, while on generated slim fit from normal fit based gament, even if you go one size up, the shoulders will look way off, on the chest everything will look a lot more sloppy and your behind will not be as clean but with some extra fabric, especially on behind the neck section from your garment falls down to your waist.
Colhays and WL are on Grade A with 36-38mm fibre length, WL with an 16-17µ while Colhays around above 15µ

 

[Johnny80]

Yes, I know, usually high gauge means 1 or 2 plies (also 4ply yarn is used sometimes), low gauge means more plies. Usually low gauge also means loose(r) knit: I wonder if it's possible to have a low(er) gauge tightly knit (or it would be too chunky and heavy). Which could be the gauge of a 12ply shawl cardigan and how tight knit would it be?

An 12 ply shawl cardigan can be 5GG, 7GG this is what i have seen for now.
In general we use rule of thumb, the higher the gauge number, thinner a piece of knitwear will be and the lower the gauge number chunkier the knitwear will be. For an 12 ply cardigan...remember your body also needs to breathe, hypothetical speaking if you want an 12ply with 16GG how your body will breathe, that is no longer a breathable garment since is so heavy, so thick and so dense. Its like wearing synthetics i think
Hope this helps a little bit, remember the example is just from hypothetical point of view since i never had one/tried one

 

[DSze9010]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys prefer a trimmer fit or a (slightly) oversized look when it comes to turtleneck knitwear?

I just received a WL Alain aran-cable turtleneck (6 ply) in uk size 42, which also measures 21" pit to pit. My usual size in tailoring is uk size 40. I am just surprised how slim the upper sleeve fit. I am wondering whether I should try size 44 or can I expect some reasonably stretxhing? (It already stretched a bit from putting it on/taking it off a couple times)

 

[DorianGreen]

Just out of curiosity, do you guys prefer a trimmer fit or a (slightly) oversized look when it comes to turtleneck knitwear?

I just received a WL Alain aran-cable turtleneck (6 ply) in uk size 42, which also measures 21" pit to pit. My usual size in tailoring is uk size 40. I am just surprised how slim the upper sleeve fit. I am wondering whether I should try size 44 or can I expect some reasonably stretxhing? (It already stretched a bit from putting it on/taking it off a couple times)

I also have it and comfirm your impressions, it's rather trim (slim fit). I like it as I prefer such a fit, but somebody else could prefer a roomier and more relaxed one.

 

[happydayz1]

My NoManWalksAlone x William Lockie Geelong Shawl Cardigan arrived.

It is really a lovely piece. The addition of the horn buttons really adds to the aesthetics of the piece. It looks like they have made it slightly longer and with a bigger shawl collar compared to the standard Windsor template.

 

[DorianGreen]

My NoManWalksAlone x William Lockie Geelong Shawl Cardigan arrived.

It is really a lovely piece. The addition of the horn buttons really adds to the aesthetics of the piece. It looks like they have made it slightly longer and with a bigger shawl collar compared to the standard Windsor template.

View attachment 2075177 View attachment 2075179 View attachment 2075181 View attachment 2075183

Congratulations, very nice! Would you kindly give some information about the measurements?

 

[happydayz1]

My measurements differ somewhat to those on the NMWA website.

Size medium measurements which I have taken below. I would say it fits as I would expect a shawl cardigan should fit me in this size. Comfortable but in no way sloppy.

Sleeve length form shoulder seam: 28.5 inches

Chest width: 22 inches

Collar width: 14 inches

Collar length: 7.75 inches

Length from base of collar: 24.75 (note collar seam extends lower due to larger shawl than usual so this may give an impression of a shorter length relative to standard WL measurements)

Total length including collar extended: 32.5 inches

 

[sussi]

Is there any brand doing more cropped knitwear? Most classic UK knitwear brands are around 66cm in the body length in my size. I would prefer it much shorter but did not find anything shorter than 63cm from Natalino.

 

[DorianGreen]

Is there any brand doing more cropped knitwear? Most classic UK knitwear brands are around 66cm in the body length in my size. I would prefer it much shorter but did not find anything shorter than 63cm from Natalino.

You can try Rubato, they typically have a shorter cut.

 

[Johnny80]

Is there any brand doing more cropped knitwear? Most classic UK knitwear brands are around 66cm in the body length in my size. I would prefer it much shorter but did not find anything shorter than 63cm from Natalino.

Since you are talking about 66cm body length that means you are talking about size 48 in general. Some Alan Paine, Rubato, some Colhays some Anderson-Sheppard (check to be made in Scotland/UK) doing shorter than 66cm...but shorter than 63cm and keep the size 48...very hard to find

 

[DorianGreen]

My measurements differ somewhat to those on the NMWA website.

Size medium measurements which I have taken below. I would say it fits as I would expect a shawl cardigan should fit me in this size. Comfortable but in no way sloppy.

Sleeve length form shoulder seam: 28.5 inches

Chest width: 22 inches

Collar width: 14 inches

Collar length: 7.75 inches

Length from base of collar: 24.75 (note collar seam extends lower due to larger shawl than usual so this may give an impression of a shorter length relative to standard WL measurements)

Total length including collar extended: 32.5 inches
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Thanks. Yes, as you stated, the shawl collar cardigan has typically a more relaxed fit, according to your measurements it could be also a Large size.

 

[Lausa]

Not pure cashmere, but I'm also not ecstatic about getting a pure cashmere shawl collar cardigan that costs over 1k.

Wondering if this would be a worthwhile value proposition at this price:

Heavy Ribbed Cardigan

Heavy wool and cashmere blend cardigan, featuring shalw collar, front pockets, button closure and ribbed collar, cuffs and hem. Ideal for wearing at home in front of the fireplace, or instead of a jacket over your dress shirt for a more casual look.

cavour.co

I have one at home right now for testing and so far I'm not very impressed with the quality. Collar is sizable but somehow feels flimsy. Length is pretty long.

The buttons look leather in pictures but are actually lookalike plastic, which really put me off.

Also made in China if that matters to someone. I think it would be ok value at a discount but not at full price.

Cavour knitwear seems like ok quality to me but so far hasn't gotten me excited yet.
Their other lines have felt like better quality.