Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

[Bespoke DJP]

Cross-post from Deep V-neck Knitwear Thread


Dear gentlemen,

Baltzar initially had three colors (see below the two sold-out ones), the Kestrel (mid-) brown which was sold out in a number of few days after its launch, and the blue which was also sold out after couple of days following that.

I have already contacted them, congratulating them for the make-up and suggesting few more colors for their next order round.

A mere addition:
Should you compare them with a relevant Rubato offering, it becomes evident who's Rubato's maker:

Best,

Dimitris

 

[happydayz1]

Cross-post from Deep V-neck Knitwear Thread


Dear gentlemen,

Baltzar initially had three colors (see below the two sold-out ones), the Kestrel (mid-) brown which was sold out in a number of few days after its launch, and the blue which was also sold out after couple of days following that.

I have already contacted them, congratulating them for the make-up and suggesting few more colors for their next order round.

View attachment 2111791


View attachment 2111793


A mere addition:
Should you compare them with a relevant Rubato offering, it becomes evident who's Rubato's maker:

View attachment 2111795


Best,

Dimitris

To help further substantiate this, see below pictures I took from a Rubato garment and a WL garment.

Tags used, including font and spacing are extremely similar. These generally always vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

 

[ianskelly]

 

[ianskelly]

View attachment 2113549 View attachment 2113551

This arrived yesterday , a begg and co yacht cardigan in ecru , really nice robust feeling cashmere. Nice but far too big . This is small and is 22inches
Pit to pit and the sleeves are far too long for me aswell ( I look like a kid in dads clothes…)

 

[happydayz1]

I had the same experience when I tried it before. Lovely piece but runs at least a size bigger than the norm.

 

[ianskelly]

I had the same experience when I tried it before. Lovely piece but runs at least a size bigger than the norm.

I also ordered the medium in taupe brown ( great colour btw) as I am usually in between small and medium and it is ridiculous!

 

[jeremyschroeder]

This is a great thread (no pun intended). However, I can't seem to find the actual "hierarchy", which I thought a few people posted. I'm curious to see how it shakes out. For example there's a similar thread about suits and the actual list of tiers was regularly updated by different people.

 

[fabricateurialist]

This is a great thread (no pun intended). However, I can't seem to find the actual "hierarchy", which I thought a few people posted. I'm curious to see how it shakes out. For example there's a similar thread about suits and the actual list of tiers was regularly updated by different people.

I created this a while ago and am maintaining it, there’s been disagreement on what constitutes good, better and best because of construction and yarn quality are two different factors, alongside fit that people value differently

And I will note that after a recent conversation with someone at Pitti who’s been in the knitwear industry for longer than StyFo exists who said “it doesn’t matter whether you buy 2/28 Loro Piana, Todd & Duncan or Cariaggi” yarns as a brand, the quality of the fibers yarn is the same, it’s just the hand feel that varies. Just some food for thought

 

[Johnny80]

I would invite that person in our labs to show facts, how an bottegiani loro piana "breaks" and is more fragile in colour degradation under light compared to an loro piana piece at the same weight. Almost every fibre manufacture has at least 2 or 3 levels of quality. And not just in the thread break but also how the pieces are put together. You literally cannot compare them not on the quality, feel or, of course, price.
That list is on point as far as i can tell, with a little exceptions Fioroni in house, Fedeli 5-. I would place Gobi and Uniqlo at 3 since i see a lot from these 2 and most of people go for one of these (but of course fit is king so i would take any-day an level 4 to an 5 if the fit is better). Tom Ford and Zegna at4+ at same level as Rubato, Rubato is not on a lower grade than Tom Ford/Zegna

 

[ben5494]

my cashmere hierarchy.
It not perfect rank because sweaters under same brand vary much.


Top tier
- old Hermes (1980's) made by Ballantyne. Best of all the sweaters. Luxury.
- old Ballantyne. Second best of all the sweaters. Luxury.

Second tier
- old Pringle. Sometimes almost as good as Ballantyne.
- old Lyle & Scott.
- modern day Hermes made in Scotland. Good as the best of old Lyle & Scott. It thick and dense and strong and not pill. The only real luxury cashmere made today me think but Loro piana baby cashmere close to luxury.
- old Laminer. Very very good and sturdy and thick. Real luxury.
- old John Laing. Not as good as the above.
- old Bryant of Scotland
- old Burberry
- old 1970's Stuart's choice.
- old Alan Paine
- modern day Kiton. Can be made to high standard and construct good and not much pill and dense and strong.

Third tier
- Loro Piana baby cashmere. It seem like lot of work go into making it and constructed good.
- Malo. It well made and constructed.

Forth tier
- Loro Piana. Nice but it not luxury.
- Brunello Cucinelli. It stretchy and arms not feel like attached good. It feel like William Lockie but it have more nice knit and more nice finish and look. It look like luxury but it not.

Fifth tier
- recent William Lockie
- modern day Johnstons of Elgin
- last lot of Alan Paine made in England. It thin and not impress.
- 1980's made in scotland club room cashmere

Sixth tier
- modern day brooks brothers made in scotland


1 ply 1970's Ballantyne = very good and never pill
1 ply 2012 Ballantyne = not very good and all pill.


Luxury cashmere = construction is good and strong and sturdy and good knit density and very durable and not use plastic button.

Hello everyone,
I would like to come back to this classification, in order to get your opinions on its validity ? If so, how can you find your way using the labels indicating the time the sweaters were made ? For Pringle, it seems that previously the Royal Warrant was present on the label unlike those of today and for John Laing, the old labels seem to mention "made in Hawick, Scotland". Are these sufficient clues ? For Ballantyne and JOE, do you have elements differentiating the old collections from the new ones ?
Another subject, on certain old woolen garments (Grenfell, Pringle, etc.) an odor which appears to me to be “chemical” is present, once the garment is aired out, this disappears, is this normal in your opinion ?
Apologies for the quality of my English.
Thanks for your answers
Ben

 

[DorianGreen]

I would invite that person in our labs to show facts, how an bottegiani loro piana "breaks" and is more fragile in colour degradation under light compared to an loro piana piece at the same weight. Almost every fibre manufacture has at least 2 or 3 levels of quality. And not just in the thread break but also how the pieces are put together. You literally cannot compare them not on the quality, feel or, of course, price.
That list is on point as far as i can tell, with a little exceptions Fioroni in house, Fedeli 5-. I would place Gobi and Uniqlo at 3 since i see a lot from these 2 and most of people go for one of these (but of course fit is king so i would take any-day an level 4 to an 5 if the fit is better). Tom Ford and Zegna at4+ at same level as Rubato, Rubato is not on a lower grade than Tom Ford/Zegna

This. Already said some times, I also will ever prefer a piece in a style and colour I like and which fits me well over another in a material of superior quality that doesn't impress me.

 

[Knurt]

This is indeed one of the things I have learnt here at Styleforum. (Although I could have deduced it based on my own practice when it came to choosing which clothes to wear.)

 

[fabricateurialist]

This. Already said some times, I also will ever prefer a piece in a style and colour I like and which fits me well over another in a material of superior quality that doesn't impress me.

The issue is that fit is down the individual, highly subjective and thus not quantifiable for any kind of ranking, whereas material quality can be objectively measured and therefore be used to compare garments on an objective level

I’ll keep the list public as long as this ranking helps some folks to get a better idea about what knitwear is available and what they’re buying into when picking a brand for the first time

 

[epsilon22]

I seem to recall someone here mentioning that Colhays used Scott & Charters, maybe they work with multiple manufacturers now?

 

[jbie]

E- thrifted this blue cable knit - any idea on the maker from this label?