Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy

[happydayz1]

For those interested, Private White VC’s BF sale has started and includes their JOE made Cashmere Submariner Rollneck and Raglan Crew.

 

[leatherleather]

Todd and Duncan aren’t knitters, but rather spinners who supply high quality yarn to the knitters.

In terms of good Scottish knitters outside of WL, you could look at Scott & Charters (who manufacture for Begg x Co), Johnston’s of Elgin, Hawico and Barrie.

Permanent Style / Anderson and Sheppard both do nice substantial (heavier than 4ply) shawl cardigan. I don’t know who the knitter / manufacturer is but given the brands in question I wouldn’t doubt the quality.

Someone also posted a link recently to one from Harrods (own label) which is knitted in Scotland.

Finally, I wouldn’t size up in the Colhays shawl. It is one of their only items I would stay TTS in.

Almost bought the A&S 12ply cardigan but now it seems that it is completely made in Italy and I was wanting a true Scottish made cardigan. Thank you for the info, I will carry on with my search

 

[Johnny80]

Besides William Lockie, what other Scottish cashmere mills are putting out quality product? Are Todd and Duncan considered top notch?

If you wanted to ask top notch 100% made in Scotland garments
There are just a few...William Lockie is not one of them beside their shawl garments where they have still the know how and set the trend for what this should look, fit and build like. So if you want "top notch" other garment than shawl cardigans i would chose something else

 

[DorianGreen]

Almost bought the A&S 12ply cardigan but now it seems that it is completely made in Italy and I was wanting a true Scottish made cardigan. Thank you for the info, I will carry on with my search

Yes, quite strange that they let some of their products be produced in Italy instead of Scotland or other parts of UK (i.e. Corgi in Wales). Not meaning that Italy has inferior quality, not at all.

 

[happydayz1]

If you wanted to ask top notch 100% made in Scotland garments
There are just a few...William Lockie is not one of them beside their shawl garments where they have still the know how and set the trend for what this should look, fit and build like. So if you want "top notch" other garment than shawl cardigans i would chose something else

Johnny, at risk of asking you to repeat yourself as you have shared some great insight on this type of question multiple times in the past, but what makers would you categorise as currently satisfying this criteria as top notch 100% made in Scotland?

 

[leatherleather]

If you wanted to ask top notch 100% made in Scotland garments
There are just a few...William Lockie is not one of them beside their shawl garments where they have still the know how and set the trend for what this should look, fit and build like. So if you want "top notch" other garment than shawl cardigans i would chose something else

I am looking strictly for a shawl cardigan but WL's 4ply offering is not heavy enough for me or do they offer an 8ply or 12 ply and I'm just not finding it?

 

[leatherleather]

Yes, quite strange that they let some of their products be produced in Italy instead of Scotland or other parts of UK (i.e. Corgi in Wales). Not meaning that Italy has inferior quality, not at all.

I have several Italian cashmere pieces from different makers and wanted to see how a Scottish cashmere garment holds up to them and I am in need of a shawl cardigan, so my quest continues. Though, I am liking how HN Whites card looks, might end up with that one and it is a 12ply.

 

[ladislav.jancik]

I am looking strictly for a shawl cardigan but WL's 4ply offering is not heavy enough for me or do they offer an 8ply or 12 ply and I'm just not finding it?

How heavy would you like to go? William Lockie cardigan is really chunky and weights almost 1 kg (mine has 930 grams / 2.05 pounds in size 42UK).

Edit: According to Colhay's page their cardigan (8-ply) is about 960 grams, which is basically the same weight, which makes me believe that William Lockie cardigan is basically 8-ply as well, just like their Oxton 1-ply sweaters are actually 2-ply.

 

[leatherleather]

How heavy would you like to go? William Lockie cardigan is really chunky and weights almost 1 kg (mine has 930 grams / 2.05 pounds in size 42UK).

The ones I have been looking at have been over a kilogram with some stating that they are over 3lbs. The 8ply and 12 ply are going to be denser and therefore more durable, correct?

 

[styleforum_username]

I am looking strictly for a shawl cardigan but WL's 4ply offering is not heavy enough for me or do they offer an 8ply or 12 ply and I'm just not finding it?

Not sure how much you have looked around, but have you seen the Permanent Style one? It is the self-styled continuation of the A&S 12-ply shawl and made in Scotland (potentially WL, as mentioned above), supposed to be restocked in the next couple of weeks. Otherwise the Begg & Co Yacht Cardigan might also appeal, 8-ply and made by Scott & Charters, since they were bought by the same group that owns Begg.

 

[happydayz1]

I have several Italian cashmere pieces from different makers and wanted to see how a Scottish cashmere garment holds up to them and I am in need of a shawl cardigan, so my quest continues. Though, I am liking how HN Whites card looks, might end up with that one and it is a 12ply.

The HN White shawl could be a good option then based on your criteria.

 

[ladislav.jancik]

The 8ply and 12 ply are going to be denser and therefore more durable, correct?

I don't think that 8-ply or 12-ply is necessarily densier than 4-ply, it all depends on the density of knit and 1-ply sweater can be densier than 4 ply loosely knitted sweater. 8-ply or 12-ply will generally speaking be just more robust then 4-ply, but again 4-ply densely knitted sweater can be heavier than 8-ply loosely knitted sweater.
Another thing I would consider is the practicality of sweater weighting more then 1kg+ in cashmere.

 

[Johnny80]

I am looking strictly for a shawl cardigan but WL's 4ply offering is not heavy enough for me or do they offer an 8ply or 12 ply and I'm just not finding it?

12 ply probably you are better to call them and make for you
If 4ply is still not heavy enough you should first try their 6ply
This is also available as MTO

Shawl-collar cardigan "Shawl-Windsor" made of pure Scottish 6 Ply cash

MJ'S DETAILS Cashmere is the so-called "king's fiber" and unique in luxury, warmth and durability. William Lockie's cashmere comes from mountain goats found in the icy climate zones of China and Mongolia. This incredible animal grows a fluffy undercoat to protect itself from wind temperatures as...

en.michaeljondral.com

Or another good shawl heavy weight 8ply

Cashmere shawl collar cardigan in dark olive

Knitted from soft cashmere, this olive cardigan is shaped for a composed yet casual fit. Explore more of our collection today.

colhays.com

 

[Johnny80]

The 8ply and 12 ply are going to be denser and therefore more durable, correct

No. More durable maybe only when you pull the sweater or put on you (manipulate your garments) because you pull from more threads...thats all. More durable is within the thread quality. If its properly care 1ply from a "top notch" maker can be far more durable than 4ply form another maker. I always recommend to push your garment from natural fibres and not to pull
The breathability of an 8ply is around the same because they are made with different GG and different technique than 1 ply. The thing that keeps you warm on the higher ply and recommended for very cold locations is the weight of the garment/the amount of the wool/cashmere in it
1 ply from one maker can differ a lot from another one even in thickness and weight
Always remember if a maker has a low quality 1 ply ...then all its garments no matter if its from 1 ply, 2 ply 12 ply will have the same low quality threads. I havent see one maker for its own garments to have more than 1 thread build quality for the same generation

 

[Johnny80]

Johnny, at risk of asking you to repeat yourself as you have shared some great insight on this type of question multiple times in the past, but what makers would you categorise as currently satisfying this criteria as top notch 100% made in Scotland?

For me it doesnt matter if its made in Scotland China Bangladesh Italy or any...if you provide me with Grade A+ fibre quality, fit, cut, dying process and all of these should be in every garment that you made, in every size, because constancy is very hard these days, even on high end mills, then you are top notch....for now, only Scotland and Italy have all of above
For me just 2 or 3 vertical names still care about constancy.