Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[Montecristo905]

If I'm not mistaken, I think that @Montecristo905 is referring to the leather being exposed at the waist on the sole we having in the current proposal.

Yes, leather on a (outer) sole is a no for me on boots.

 

[stook1]

I guess to each their own, but this is my preference.

I've got one boot with the tramuntana style sole from Alden. Most of my other boots are commando soles. I just don't see any aesthetic or functional case for not having all rubber/commando (or all rubber ridgeway sole) on a boot.

The aesthetic case is subjective.
There are functional cases for/against various sole options.

Here are my functional considerations for some of the rubber sole choices. I don't prefer dainite style soles because they can be hazardous on smooth, wet surfaces and they last forever, which is a blessing and a curse. Deeper lug soles hold pebbles and can scratch floors. Both of these style soles are sometimes stiffer or heavier than other choices. I have some experience with Tramuntana since I had a pair briefly and had a positive impression of the sole functionally and aesthetically.

I think a few of us initially took your feedback as a functional concern about the exposed leather at the waist of the shoe. Is that the case? I can't say. Reading your other comments, it seems that you prefer full rubber soles because you see no reason not to have full rubber. Seems odd for that to be a deal killer while being unwilling to articulate the rationale against the half sole. Given that this was the design voted on by others in the thread, it seems like borderline trolling to come out with this inflexible of a position, while not being able to articulate any reason for it.

It's very typical to propose changes to GMTOs, the participants advocate for what they want, discuss the rationale for changes, suss out which are preferences and which are deal killers, and everyone tries to settle on a mutually agreeable path forward in the interest of completing the GMTO.

Ultimately, I'll let @LA Guy drive next steps on this and any other changes. I'm open to sole options and other changes. I'll make a buying decision once the boot design is finalized.

 

[jamie411]

@LA Guy will there be a formal poll posted to vote? Or are we just counting comments?

Put a Storm Welt on that workboot w black grain cordovan, and I’m sold!

 

[Montecristo905]

The aesthetic case is subjective.
There are functional cases for/against various sole options.

Here are my functional considerations for some of the rubber sole choices. I don't prefer dainite style soles because they can be hazardous on smooth, wet surfaces and they last forever, which is a blessing and a curse. Deeper lug soles hold pebbles and can scratch floors. Both of these style soles are sometimes stiffer or heavier than other choices. I have some experience with Tramuntana since I had a pair briefly and had a positive impression of the sole functionally and aesthetically.

I think a few of us initially took your feedback as a functional concern about the exposed leather at the waist of the shoe. Is that the case? I can't say. Reading your other comments, it seems that you prefer full rubber soles because you see no reason not to have full rubber. Seems odd for that to be a deal killer while being unwilling to articulate the rationale against the half sole. Given that this was the design voted on by others in the thread, it seems like borderline trolling to come out with this inflexible of a position, while not being able to articulate any reason for it.

It's very typical to propose changes to GMTOs, the participants advocate for what they want, discuss the rationale for changes, suss out which are preferences and which are deal killers, and everyone tries to settle on a mutually agreeable path forward in the interest of completing the GMTO.

Ultimately, I'll let @LA Guy drive next steps on this and any other changes. I'm open to sole options and other changes. I'll make a buying decision once the boot design is finalized.

you label my comments however you want. Keep in mind this is a shoe thread. You may have your forums
mixed up because there is no trolling in MTO discussions! You can order any spec you want. If you don’t like the specs, don’t buy the shoe.

To me, rubber/commando soles are superior functionally & aesthetically. The Tramuntana sole is just a commando sole with a nonsensical leather component in the middle section of the (out) sole, which adds nothing functionally or aesthetically to the boot. This leather part of the (out) sole makes the Tramuntana sole a sole with 2 parts/materials - leather and rubber which is inferior to a single material (rubber) sole.

 

[LA Guy]

@LA Guy will there be a formal poll posted to vote? Or are we just counting comments?

Put a Storm Welt on that workboot w black grain cordovan, and I’m sold!

We may put up a poll, but would need to coordinate with Carmina first. There needs to be consensus on the exact makeup before I am willing to put up a poll though. I am not going to put up "black boot - hatch grain shell cordovan." I really do need you guys to, as a group, decide on sole and eyelets vs speedlacing. If you guys can bring me that, I would be happy to put it in a poll. One of the 4 will win, and there is a lot of chatter about the black boot, which is awesome, but I need some actual consensus, and then commitments, for that particular makeup. Right now, I see people split between eyelets and speedlacing, and between sole types, and then, to further complicate things, welts. If you could please talk amongst yourselves, to some agreeable single configuration, I would be happy to put it on.

How about:
Commando Sole
Speedlacing
360 welt.

That's just something I am throwing out there. But I do need a consensus and then some commitments. Thanks for understanding, guys.

 

[LA Guy]

And guys, keep it friendly, okay?

This is a fun exercise in which we can get a boot in an exclusive leather. It's a cool project in which we have the privilege of participating. Let's keep that in mind please. Thanks.

Cheers,
Fok.

 

[adrs1157]

you label my comments however you want. Keep in mind this is a shoe thread. You may have your forums
mixed up because there is no trolling in MTO discussions! You can order any spec you want. If you don’t like the specs, don’t buy the shoe.

To me, rubber/commando soles are superior functionally & aesthetically. The Tramuntana sole is just a commando sole with a nonsensical leather component in the middle section of the (out) sole, which adds nothing functionally or aesthetically to the boot. This leather part of the (out) sole makes the Tramuntana sole a sole with 2 parts/materials - leather and rubber which is inferior to a single material (rubber) sole.

My 2c.

Full-length rubber outsoles interrupt the leather heel stack. Having a rubber halfsole and heel top lift is a good compromise.

Aesthetically, especially with natural or brown stained edges, black rubber in-between leather is unsightly and generally a dealbreaker for me. Rubber also does not patinate very well, while leather can look great. Even with a black stained edge, it will eventually wear away without constant maintenance. Pink and brown undertones will peek through as the stain wears. The rubber stays black.

Functionally, I'm with @stook1 - the leather piece does not come in contact with anything that will cause meaningful wear.

 

[mag1119]

80478

 

[jcreadeur]

Just so everyone can see the difference here are the two soles in question. I don’t own any with Victoria Sole, so I can’t post pictures of that full rubber version.

 

[stook1]

Just so everyone can see the difference here are the two soles in question. I don’t own any with Victoria Sole, so I can’t post pictures of that full rubber version.

View attachment 1919167 View attachment 1919169 View attachment 1919171

Extremely helpful pic. Thanks for posting this @jcreadeur. Could you confirm if the high jumper with the half sole has a single or double mid sole?

This gets at the exact aesthetic I was trying to describe a page or two back where the waist area of the sole is visually thinner than the ball due to the half sole.

This also further gets at the aesthetic point that @adrs1157 articulated just above about the benefit of the leather heel stack with the half sole choice vs lugged.

Lovely boots, btw, sir.

 

[jcreadeur]

Extremely helpful pic. Thanks for posting this @jcreadeur. Could you confirm if the high jumper with the half sole has a single or double mid sole?

This gets at the exact aesthetic I was trying to describe a page or two back where the waist area of the sole is visually thinner than the ball due to the half sole.

This also further gets at the aesthetic point that @adrs1157 articulated just above about the benefit of the leather midsole and heel stack especially.

Lovely boots, btw, sir.

They are double sole. In my opinion the tramuntana sole is more dressy and will look better if you plan on wearing these boots with dress clothes. The commando sole is more casual and a tad heavier.

I’m completely OK with either one on the boot. I also have no preference on Storm welt or not but I have to have speed hooks or I physically can’t wear the boot.

 

[stook1]

They are double sole. In my opinion the tramuntana sole is more dressy and will look better if you plan on wearing these boots with dress clothes. The commando sole is more casual and a tad heavier.

I’m completely OK with either one on the boot. I also have no preference on Storm welt or not but I have to have speed hooks or I physically can’t wear the boot.

Right on. My earlier comments about speed hooks were not entirely serious and hope it was obvious that it wasn’t a deal killer to me either way.

I do prefer the aesthetics of eyelets but very aware of the hassle impact. Not a huge deal for me, just a small detail.

Storm welt and sole choice are more impactful considerations. One possible compromise on the welt choice is something closer to an Enzo Bonafe style flat welt —sort of like Carmina’s welt on the navy blue wingtip oxford I posted from Trading Post in Japan. This would be chunkier looking than the usual flat welt since it’s less closely trimmed but less chunky than a storm welt. I think we’d need to have deep fudging though, otherwise it might look odd.

ETA review collection of pics here for chunky flat welt: https://tradingpost.jp/kyoto/20871/

As for the sole, I think your pic further reinforced for my preference not to go with the full lug sole. I just prefer the more refined edge look and heel stack of the tramuntana.

 

[Carmina]

80478

Are these votes for the 80478?

That would be 11...

 

[Carmina]

We may put up a poll, but would need to coordinate with Carmina first. There needs to be consensus on the exact makeup before I am willing to put up a poll though. I am not going to put up "black boot - hatch grain shell cordovan." I really do need you guys to, as a group, decide on sole and eyelets vs speedlacing. If you guys can bring me that, I would be happy to put it in a poll. One of the 4 will win, and there is a lot of chatter about the black boot, which is awesome, but I need some actual consensus, and then commitments, for that particular makeup. Right now, I see people split between eyelets and speedlacing, and between sole types, and then, to further complicate things, welts. If you could please talk amongst yourselves, to some agreeable single configuration, I would be happy to put it on.

How about:
Commando Sole
Speedlacing
360 welt.

That's just something I am throwing out there. But I do need a consensus and then some commitments. Thanks for understanding, guys.

We need to choose a model that everyone is comfortable with.

If we argue between eyelets/speedlacing and tramuntana/comando/others. We are off target, but if it is someone interested in buying we can make these slight modifications to the model as an exception. Although there are modifications that will not be possible.

But first let's come to an agreement, if we want to modify something we can discuss it when the purchase is made, I will ask if it can be done.


Think about that modifications:

Commando Sole
Speedlacing
360 welt

 

[LA Guy]

We need to choose a model that everyone is comfortable with.

If we argue between eyelets/speedlacing and tramuntana/comando/others. We are off target, but if it is someone interested in buying we can make these slight modifications to the model as an exception. Although there are modifications that will not be possible.

But first let's come to an agreement, if we want to modify something we can discuss it when the purchase is made, I will ask if it can be done.


Think about that modifications:

Commando Sole
Speedlacing
360 welt

It seems like there are more in favor of the sole as originally proposed, but I can set up a small poll in a separate thread on the question of sole alone if that would be useful!

I am glad that minor variations may be possible! Thank you!