Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - preorder issues, discussion,and resolution.

[dieworkwear]

No need to be so defensive! I wasn't referring to your integrity, but the concept in general, and especially as related to the business practices of AoL. I thought that was quite clear.

I think you were clear. I care about integrity, both my own and others. I've raised issues with AoL's handling of this situation and their entire business model. The discussions stretched many pages in this thread. Aside from some poor attempts at humor and shitposting, I'd like to think that I wasn't shrill about it.

Many CM discussions, and especially shoe discussions, feel quite shrill to me. I don't really get why this side of the forum is like this. It doesn't feel like it happens on the SWD side of the forum. I think it's because fashion is discussed in the context of The Dialectic, and everything becomes some philosophical debate or court session. I don't know.

 

[deliku]

@George Mason

Sorry that my post made you upset; not my intention to make anyone upset, but rather to point out that if a positive behavior is shown then it should be reinforced just the same way that a negative behavior should be called out.

Several of us have derived a great deal of enjoyment out of poking fun at this situation in one way or another; to the point where I think some individuals would have been too thin-skinned to bear it. But if you will only derive enjoyment out of seeing AOL punished or belittled or somesuch then I think your energies are better spent towards addressing them directly rather than indirectly through us. Edit - please feel free to consult with @Verrihappy on how to do this properly. Thank you.

 

[George Mason]

I think you were clear. I care about integrity, both my own and others. I've raised issues with AoL's handling of this situation and their entire business model. The discussions stretched many pages in this thread. Aside from some poor attempts at humor and shitposting, I'd like to think that I wasn't shrill about it.

Many CM discussions, and especially shoe discussions, feel quite shrill to me. I don't really get why this side of the forum is like this. It doesn't feel like it happens on the SWD side of the forum. I think it's because fashion is discussed in the context of The Dialectic, and everything becomes some philosophical debate or court session. I don't know.

I'm glad we both care about integrity. It's the only reason I decided to add my commentary to this thread, and even that was with some hesitancy, since I was not a customer of AoL and feared entering a maelstrom.

I typically don't get involved in most threads, Hegelian or not. Most of the clothing stuff is quite individual/personal so my opinion may not matter to most, and I certainly don't view clothing or shoes as the pinnacle of importance.

I read all of your posts re: AoL in this thread, and I thought you handled the discussion well, albeit perhaps more gently/forgiving than I would have. Maybe that's simply a case of my guns blazing a little too strongly on such issues.

 

[George Mason]

@George Mason

Sorry that my post made you upset; not my intention to make anyone upset, but rather to point out that if a positive behavior is shown then it should be reinforced just the same way that a negative behavior should be called out.

Several of us have derived a great deal of enjoyment out of poking fun at this situation in one way or another; to the point where I think some individuals would have been too thin-skinned to bear it. But if you will only derive enjoyment out of seeing AOL punished or belittled or somesuch then I think your energies are better spent towards addressing them directly rather than indirectly through us. Edit - please feel free to consult with @Verrihappy on how to do this properly. Thank you.

None of your posts upset me. I simply thought you were too deferential and forgiving to a company that deserved none of it.

As for the rest of your comments - what the hell are you talking about? "Derive enjoyment out of seeing AoL punished"? "Address them rather than through us"? Play psychoanalyst elsewhere...and if you begin a thread with an apology, don't negate it by writing insulting garbage directed at me.

 

[Verrihappy]

Besides all of the "fair" and "very fair" comments (again, they did the bare minimum or their shoe business would have collapsed, and they waited a month to do it!), we have: "well done"; "more than fair"; "doesn't seem so bad"; "more generous than expected"; post #1170, "even greater than I suggested" and the very surprising remainder of that post (#1175, which also calls AoL "honest" and thus redefines the word); "AoL doing the right thing" (and absurdly suggesting that the posts in this thread would be responsible if they didn't!); "pretty cool"; "damage has been rectified" (as if AoL's deceit and deceptive/fraudulent marketing are no longer an issue because of a refund); post #1242; "pat on back for doing the right thing."

As I mentioned earlier, this must be because so many expected a complete disaster, so the bare minimum somehow is magnified into something it is not.

Sorry if anyone is upset that I indirectly quoted them; not my intention to make anyone upset, but rather to point out a generosity that I believe is not warranted in this case, to a business that is undeserving of such generosity.

There sure is a lot of shills here praising the bloody scheming scammers, and folks have been slammed for exposing the fraud and rip offs.

Btw, AOL still owes an explanation of why they hyped and lied about this obscure, hidden treasure of an artisanal workshop, which in fact is a factory doing sub contractual work and have its own online shop.

And I have yet to see the ostensibly impartial posters here pressing for AOL to come clean (gone AWOL and silent since EXPOSED), or are they in fact shills?

 

[Verrihappy]

Why is Fok not holding AOL responsible for the scam, after all they are an affiliate deceptively marketing and fraudulently selling their wares here?

 

[clee1982]

if someone decide to take the get money back route I can’t think of anything better than this at $230...

Some sweet deals on B&S if you know your size...

.

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www.styleforum.net

 

[Potatoe]

The CM side of this forum is so weird. Everyone seriously should smoke a little weed. AoL, Verrihappi, Potatoe, you, etc.

I'm in Vancouver Canada. It's Friday afternoon and 24 Celsius out. There is no lack of weed at this particular time in this particular place ?

if someone decide to take the get money back route I can’t think of anything better than this at $230...

Some sweet deals on B&S if you know your size...

.

.

www.styleforum.net

Wow, wish those were my size.

 

[LA Guy]

Why is Fok not holding AOL responsible for the scam, after all they are an affiliate deceptively marketing and fraudulently selling their wares here?

Because Archibald of London was nearly certainly the victim this case. If they are guilty of anything, it’s naïveté and unfounded trust in some factory owners in a venture into a new area. And those factory owners took advantage of that.

I base my conclusions on that which I know for sure - which is that Archibald paid for all of the advance marketing, including a fair bit on behalf of the factory, and staked a lot of their brand equity on a proposition. And then they informed all consumers when the deception on the part of the factory was discovered, and then finally took a bath in order to make things right. Oh, and they marketed the shoes to an audience that would have more certainly discovered the deception. They are generally so confident in their project that they have sent both V1 and V2 of their sneakers to be literally cut in half and dissected and analyzed, to a YouTube account that does exactly that. With so much to lose, and that they ultimately lost, and so little to gain, from deceiving the Styleforum community, it stretches credulity to think that they had a nefarious plan to do so. Neither reason nor history nor their final offer to their clients points to that accusation being at all true.

I have intimate experience with not just Archibald of London, but with the pricing structure in the clothing, footwear, an accessories business, and the issues with production at that factory level, and specifically in Italy. I have even helped coordinate work with Italian factories for some brands. I’ve been dealing with this type of thing since the late 90s. This allows me to evaluate the situation and the credibility of private communications. It’s not as though my judgement is infallible, but my smart money says that the Italian factory screwed them and did a little bait and switch.

Anyway, I’m not really interested in engaging in a discussion that has gone on too long anyway and is pretty much exhausted in every way. I also have a duty to keep confidential conversations confidential.

Cheers,

Fok.

 

[Verrihappy]

Well, AOL may be a victim of this scam, which l doubt very much, as hand welting is not on offer from the Alessandro Cappi factory. I think they are very much complicit in it. Not to mention all their lies about throwing a lifeline to pockets of artisanal excellence, integrity, transparency etc.

Manufacturing

OUR ITALIAN SHOES, are the sign of a scrupulous selection of raw materials, of a qualified workmanship and an elegant aesthetic research.. Shoes are made as a thought of love, a precious moment for those who want to pamper themselvesi and indulge in a long emotion. Each pair is a masterpiece of...

www.alessandrocappi.com

 

[LA Guy]

Well, AOL may be a victim of this scam, which l doubt very much, as hand welting is not on offer from the Alessandro Cappi factory. I think they are very much complicit in it. Not to mention all their lies about throwing a lifeline to pockets of artisanal excellence, integrity, transparency etc.

Manufacturing

OUR ITALIAN SHOES, are the sign of a scrupulous selection of raw materials, of a qualified workmanship and an elegant aesthetic research.. Shoes are made as a thought of love, a precious moment for those who want to pamper themselvesi and indulge in a long emotion. Each pair is a masterpiece of...

www.alessandrocappi.com

You clearly already have your mind made up. But fwiw, not all of a factory’s capabilities are listed on their official website. Also, the second part is also nearly certainly true. I am not privy to the books of these small companies. But 2020 was a killer for small Italian businesses. Styleforum itself deliberately patronized one to help during that initial phase on the pandemic in Italy.

I’m going to put a pause on posting in this thread for a few days, since it’s become clear that it’s become about personal grievance rather than getting clarity and reaching a resolution. If people wish to continue in a civil discourse after that, I’ll open it back up. Cheers all. And have a great night.

Fok.

 

[haloitsme]

Any updates? Everyone gotten money back or a compensation?
Would anyone mind put a summery on the first page so readers get the Infos and don’t need to go through 86 pages? Preferably @Jmr928 .

 

[clee1982]

I thought you can’t edit that far our? Also what’s there to update, it’s not like @Jmr928 knows all the guys who got the bad pair and what each person decided the route to go (partial refund or full refund with shoes returned)?

 

[JohnMRobie]

Unsure what summary you’d be interested in. I can’t edit a post back that far though. As for an update - it’s all come to a resolution and my purchase was resolved under the same parameters and options as they offered everyone else who purchased an impacted pair. I assume other guys made varying decisions.

 

[yshin10]

Unsure what summary you’d be interested in. I can’t edit a post back that far though. As for an update - it’s all come to a resolution and my purchase was resolved under the same parameters and options as they offered everyone else who purchased an impacted pair. I assume other guys made varying decisions.

Same here. Everything has been resolved!