Archibald London Hand Welted Shoes - preorder issues, discussion,and resolution.

[clee1982]

I wish they succeed for sure, but definitely some way to go, even pre this issue the photo always left something to be desired.

I was hoping they would go for something more country (and then it create a niche with all the handwelt dress shoe options there). I mean ultimately if there is someone who does RTW HW English style country shoe at EB/Vass price I would probably buy.

 

[ajd578]

Have never seen a shoe built like that before, don't really understand it to be honest. Would definitely not call it stitchdown or anything like that, it's a very simple and cheap construction.

It seems closest to the stitchdown-naildown construction that several PNW boot makers use (Viberg, Wesco, some White's). For the most part, it's only glue securing the insole in the forefoot area (the waist and heel is secured by nails). Nick's Boots also Blake stitched the insole & midsole together. Obviously none of them add the decorative welt.

 

[Noblekostas]

I wish they succeed for sure, but definitely some way to go, even pre this issue the photo always left something to be desired.

I was hoping they would go for something more country (and then it create a niche with all the handwelt dress shoe options there). I mean ultimately if there is someone who does RTW HW English style country shoe at EB/Vass price I would probably buy.

I had you more like the AM type

 

[ter1413]

...

 

[j ingevaldsson]

It seems closest to the stitchdown-naildown construction that several PNW boot makers use (Viberg, Wesco, some White's). For the most part, it's only glue securing the insole in the forefoot area (the waist and heel is secured by nails). Nick's Boots also Blake stitched the insole & midsole together. Obviously none of them add the decorative welt.

Not really, since a stitchdown-naildown construction, or similar ones, all use a midsole which is what the outsole is attached to. It can have nails as the main integral structural part, if naildown only, and then sole/rapid stitch attaching the outsole, but all are very different to this one used here. Here, only glue stands for the integral part of the construction, and if you remove the sole/rapid stitch and remove the outsole there's only glue left, and since the upper is folded outside rather sensitive in this sense even compared to for example a Blake stitched shoe where upper itself is at least glued to the insole, not only the lining.

If you resole a stitchdown-naildown shoe, a stitchdown shoe or a naildown shoe, you remove the outsole from the midsole but similar to a welted shoe the integral structure of the shoe is still intact, you don't touch this. In this construction used here there's no such thing.

 

[dieworkwear]

I still don't understand why they describe their sneakers as Goodyear welted. It seems like the same Margom cup construction as CPs and some boat shoes.

 

[ajd578]

Not really, since a stitchdown-naildown construction, or similar ones, all use a midsole which is what the outsole is attached to. It can have nails as the main integral structural part, if naildown only, and then sole/rapid stitch attaching the outsole, but all are very different to this one used here. Here, only glue stands for the integral part of the construction, and if you remove the sole/rapid stitch and remove the outsole there's only glue left, and since the upper is folded outside rather sensitive in this sense even compared to for example a Blake stitched shoe where upper itself is at least glued to the insole, not only the lining.

If you resole a stitchdown-naildown shoe, a stitchdown shoe or a naildown shoe, you remove the outsole from the midsole but similar to a welted shoe the integral structure of the shoe is still intact, you don't touch this. In this construction used here there's no such thing.

I didn't say same, or even very similar, just the closest that I'm aware. I've seen SD/ND Vibergs with no midsole, and only one row of rapid stitching through uppers and outsole. In that case, the only structural difference would be that the Vibergs had nails all the way to the waist, whereas the AoL are only nailed at the heel. And in all SD/ND Viberg (and Wescos), there's no nails or stitches attaching the insole to anything distal to the waist. Only glue.

 

[JohnMRobie]

I wish they succeed for sure, but definitely some way to go, even pre this issue the photo always left something to be desired.

I was hoping they would go for something more country (and then it create a niche with all the handwelt dress shoe options there). I mean ultimately if there is someone who does RTW HW English style country shoe at EB/Vass price I would probably buy.

This’ll be moot when I try to convince that bespoke maker to add that pattern to their MTO line they’re rolling out

 

[Potatoe]

I still don't understand why they describe their sneakers as Goodyear welted. It seems like the same Margom cup construction as CPs and some boat shoes.

The sneakers that everyone from this site bought, were not advertised as Goodyear welted.

I think what you are talking about is the cordovan sneakers which weren't even released yet.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

I still don't understand why they describe their sneakers as Goodyear welted. It seems like the same Margom cup construction as CPs and some boat shoes.

I don't fully understand that new construction either to be honest, had someone ask about it so watched the film that showed the making. It does use a Goodyear stitch but not to attach a welt, only the upper to the insole. But then the sidewall stiching is done just the same as on all other sidewall stitched shoes, and when you resole these they will be resoled exactly the same way. Sure, you have the insole and upper kept together with the Goodyear stitch, but it's still the same difficulty to not punch new holes in the upper as regular sidewall stitched shoe, it would be resoled the exact same way needing a sidewall stitching machine.
Using a proper leather footbed one can do on a regular sidewall stitched shoe as well, if that would be what one is after.

I didn't say same, or even very similar, just the closest that I'm aware. I've seen SD/ND Vibergs with no midsole, and only one row of rapid stitching. In that case, the only structural difference would be that the Vibergs had nails all the way to the waist, whereas the AoL are only nailed at the heel. And in all SD/ND Viberg (and Wescos), there's no nails or stitches attaching the insole to anything distal to the waist. Only glue.

If it's Stitchdown/ Naildown construction it has to have a midsole, otherwise it's something else. Not sure which models that has no midsole, can't remember seeing it, and what they would call that construction. Do you have pictures?
Not sure I understand the last part there? Again, in all the common constructions used by the brands you mention, it's either nails or stitches holding the upper together with the midsole (and glue as well of course, but not only), and then stitches holding the midsole together with the outsole, sometimes only cemented outsole but the integral part is nailed and/or stitched.

 

[boot_owl]

I don't fully understand that new construction either to be honest, had someone ask about it so watched the film that showed the making. It does use a Goodyear stitch but not to attach a welt, only the upper to the insole. But then the sidewall stiching is done just the same as on all other sidewall stitched shoes, and when you resole these they will be resoled exactly the same way. Sure, you have the insole and upper kept together with the Goodyear stitch, but it's still the same difficulty to not punch new holes in the upper as regular sidewall stitched shoe, it would be resoled the exact same way needing a sidewall stitching machine.
Using a proper leather footbed one can do on a regular sidewall stitched shoe as well, if that would be what one is after.



If it's Stitchdown/ Naildown construction it has to have a midsole, otherwise it's something else. Not sure which models that has no midsole, can't remember seeing it, and what they would call that construction. Do you have pictures?
Not sure I understand the last part there? Again, in all the common constructions used by the brands you mention, it's either nails or stitches holding the upper together with the midsole (and glue as well of course, but not only), and then stitches holding the midsole together with the outsole, sometimes only cemented outsole but the integral part is nailed and/or stitched.

it really is just a modification of stitchdown though isn’t it? I mean if you were to cement a rubber sole on (something that wouldn’t be practical to stitch) then the only difference between this and stitchdown is the fake welt on top of the turned out upper.
I guess the true key difference is that the upper isn’t nailed to the insole until the heel but that’s seems quite minor

 

[shirtingfantasy]

In that case, you can’t beat the “value” of Enzo Bonafe...

Maybe @ArchibaldRoh should consider working with them. I think EB also aren’t having an easy time during COVID-19, and their style and wide range of leather and construction options - from Blake to chained Norwegian - should appeal to a lot of people as well.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

it really is just a modification of stitchdown though isn’t it? I mean if you were to cement a rubber sole on (something that wouldn’t be practical to stitch) then the only difference between this and stitchdown is the fake welt on top of the turned out upper.
I guess the true key difference is that the upper isn’t nailed to the insole until the heel but that’s seems quite minor

No, it's a difference, since here you have no integral structure apart from the glue, while with stitchdown you have the upper and midsole stitched together. And the midsole is the key, it in the same way as the welt on a welted shoe works as the "connector" (sorry for my English) between the upper+insole and the outsole. You don't touch this when resoled, but here you would essentially pick it all apart when trying to resole it, and as I mentioned above extra sensitive since the upper is folded outwards not being directly connected to the insole at all.

 

[ajd578]

in all the common constructions used by the brands you mention, it's either nails or stitches holding the upper together with the insole and midsole (and glue as well of course, but not only)

Only glue attaches the insole to anything ahead of the waist (definitely for Viberg, almost certainly for Wesco, not for White's or Nick's). The nails stop about the point where the upper is turned out (via Lars of Østmo):

Full post here:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Do you have pictures?

No, it was a sample (some shell Chelsea boots). I only mention it as a proof of principle to illustrate that if Viberg were to skip the midsole, it would be even closer to AoL. It doesn't really matter to me what they would call it if they adopted it more generally across their product line.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Only glue ahead of the waist (definitely for Viberg, almost certainly for Wesco, not for White's or Nick's). The nails stop about the point where the upper is turned out (via Lars of Østmo):

Full post here:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

No, it was a sample (some shell Chelsea boots). I only mention it as a proof of principle to illustrate that if Viberg were to skip the midsole, it would be even closer to AoL. It doesn't really matter to me what they would call it if they adopted it more generally across their product line.

Yeah, but attached to that above you see in the pictures is the midsole, right, and then to this the outsole is stitched. As I mentioned above, the midsole is the key.