Old Foster and Son - Can anyone tell me more about these?

nate10184 · Aug 3, 2008

I picked these up on ebay on a whim and used them as a restoration project. They were in really rough shape when I got them and I did about as much as possible to get these looking nice.

Can anyone tell me anything about these in particular whether they might be bespoke. The seller advertised them as such and they have that swoopy bespoke shape but otherwise I don't see any tell tale characteristics of bespoke. I was initially drawn to the square toe which reminds me of the 888. I don't remember ever seeing an elegant square toe on a pair of shoes this old.

There is no writing inside the shoe and I can barely make out a few letters on the bottom that looks like FOST. Can anyone guess when they were made and if they aren't bespoke who might have made them?

bengal-stripe · Aug 4, 2008

I don't want to say it with certainty, but judging by the pictures, I believe they are bespoke.

I rather like the toe cap sitting quite frivolous at a slant (just like one of Frankie-boy's hats). I have a pair of New & Lingwood bespoke from the late 70s (not for me) with a similarly angled toe cap. The stitching, once channelled, shows under the sole because the covering leather has worn away,(which is absolutely normal).

There is one tell-tale sign to see if the shoes were hand-welted: Look at the insole, pass the "˜sock' (insole-liner) and check the insole for dimples. If it is difficult to see, run your fingers over it. An industrially welted shoe has a smooth insole, a hand-welted one shows dimples (that's where the stitching from underneath goes through the insole at half thickness and leaves a mark on the top of the insole).

Foster & Sons have been at their current premises in Jermyn Street since 1966. I would guess, your shoes are from the late-70s, early-80s. Assuming they are bespoke, they would have been made by the eminent last maker Terry Moore, who has worked for Foster from the mid-60s to this day (he is 73 now).

Machine-welted shoe (smooth insole)

Two hand welted shoes (dimples on the insole)

meister · Aug 5, 2008

Just a question... did you do the restoration with elbow grease or did you have to bring in the professionals at any time?

Manton · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

I don't want to say it with certainty, but judging by the pictures, I believe they are bespoke.

I was going to say the opposite. Judging by the pictures, they do not look bespoke to me.

nate10184 · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by meister

Just a question... did you do the restoration with elbow grease or did you have to bring in the professionals at any time?

I did it myself. I baked them in my car for a week or two with leatherique oil which really softened up the dry/hard leather and eliminated a lot of the creasing. There was also some sticky material in the leather that the leatherique lifted out. Then I spent quite a while polishing them up.

The left shoe looks almost new in these pics which is pretty amazing considering what they looked like when I got them. The right has some gashes that can't be fixed I still think they look okay.

Originally Posted by Manton

I was going to say the opposite. Judging by the pictures, they do not look bespoke to me.

I agree, when I saw the pics I was disappointed because I couldn't capture the elegance of the shape, especially the toe. The before pics actually capture the shape better if I can find them I'll post them.

RJman · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by Manton

I was going to say the opposite. Judging by the pictures, they do not look bespoke to me.
Why'zat?

Manton · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by RJman

Why'zat?

1) Last shape is neither particularly refined nor particularly quirky, the two hallmarks of bespoke.

2) The waist is rather chunky and sole sticks out pretty far. You might see that on a double-soled bespoke shoe, but not on a single-soled dress shoe.

3) From underneath, the sole does not look distinguished at all. I disagree with Rolf about the channeling. Leather wearing away and showing stitches is common enough, but that is so uniform, all the way around, every stitch perfectly visible, that I wonder if it was ever channelled and covered at all.

4) The dovetail rubber heel piece. Every bespoke shoe I have ever seen uses a straight one. Dovetail is a hallmark of RTW.

distinctive · Aug 5, 2008

I was thinking they were RTW as well but what do I know. Great job restoring the upper, now get some new soles and heels.

Tarmac · Aug 5, 2008

You did a pretty ridiculous job on the upper, but I'm not sure they are wearable with the flaking sole like that. Do you plan to get them soled? Try them out first?

bengal-stripe · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by Tarmac

.... but I'm not sure they are wearable with the flaking sole like that. Do you plan to get them soled?

Assuming the soles are sound when you press the centre, just finish the waist.

Take a piece of glass and use as a scraper (see Vass book, page 169). Then apply generous portion of polish and let it sink into the leather.
The next day you buff it, using a few drops of water and a round wooden stick, held with both hands.

Next week, I might be in a position to give the definite answer, whether these shoes are bespoke or RTW.

TKDKid · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by Manton

3) From underneath, the sole does not look distinguished at all. I disagree with Rolf about the channeling. Leather wearing away and showing stitches is common enough, but that is so uniform, all the way around, every stitch perfectly visible, that I wonder if it was ever channelled and covered at all.

It looks like it was channelled at the waist to me - see the outside edge:

4) The dovetail rubber heel piece. Every bespoke shoe I have ever seen uses a straight one. Dovetail is a hallmark of RTW.

Jun Kuwana's bespoke F&Ss:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/cobblers-...parts/sole.jpg

http://homepage2.nifty.com/cobblers-...s/foster05.jpg

The only thing I can add is that the brogueing along the seams looks a bit wonky and so was probably done by hand:

rebel222 · Aug 5, 2008

2 quick questions:
What did you pay for these? and
Do you have any before pics?

fritzl · Aug 5, 2008

Originally Posted by RJman

Why'zat?

I vote for bespoke.

Now, we need a poll. Horrido, Juchhe, Juchhe...

About the condition: Heel, excellent(dovetail is from a aftermarket job)

Sole: Skip the glas, if you are not trained(sorry bengal). Use some fine sandpaper and then follow the procedure BS recommends.

tlmusic · Aug 5, 2008

Whether or not these shoes are bespoke, it needs to be mentioned that these are very attractive, if a bit understated shoes.

Most of the Bespoke shoe pr0n has featured some very showy shoes, and it's refreshing to see a classic design for a change.

These Fosters look more refined, at least to me, than a modern Edward Green RTW.

stilmacher · Aug 5, 2008

I think these are great no matter if bespoke or RTW. Well done!

Old Foster and Son - Can anyone tell me more about these?

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