What causes shoulder dimples?

[CrimsonSox]

What causes downward dimples on the top of a suit shoulder? How can they be fixed?

These are different from divots, which are on the side of the sleevehead. Here's an example of dimples (the suit is worn by Yukio Akamine, who's one of the foremost sartorial experts in Japan). You can see the downward dimple or indentation on the top of the shoulder:



Although he's sitting down, dimples on the top of the shoulder can appear when someone is standing up.

 

[BigRob]

Isn't the fabric on the top of a suit supposed to rest flush against your shoulders (trapezius muscles)? It might be that he is becoming gaunt in his old age and no longer fills out his suit.

 

[CrimsonSox]

I think the look that's most pleasing for many people is a smooth shoulder, without distracting bumps or dimples. Here's a picture of Akamine at the same age with a smooth shoulder:

 

[clee1982]

1. don't sit down
2. don't raise your arm, not even shrug
3. don't have weird shoulder where bones are popping out

More seriously, I don't know. Though I would imagine you can only keep this form happening when you're standing.

 

[CrimsonSox]

I have a suit that has a dimple in one of the shoulders, even when I'm standing up with my arms relaxed. There's no dimple on my other jackets. It's a nice suit though, which is why I'd like to fix it, assuming that it's possible.

 

[Dempsy444]

Good question for Despos or JeffryD. I agree, it makes the suit look much worse. A couple of my suits suffer from this and it drives me nuts.

 

[AlexE]

I have such a dimple on a Canali suit. In this case the dimple extends from a point where the arm has not been sewn perfectly "flat" into the armhole of the suit. Hence it is a manufacturing issue, which probably could be fixed by a tailor.

However, shoulder dimples can also be the result of ill-fitting coats. One often sees them on one side of the suit only, which is probably the unavoidable result of men with shoulder asymmetries wearing OTR suits.

 

[CrimsonSox]

Any luck finding what causes shoulder dimples, like in Yukio Akamine's suit in the original post? The dimples are on top of the shoulder, as opposed to divots, which are on the side of the sleevehead. Nearly 500 views on this thread, so it seems like a common problem.

 

[Dempsy444]

Don't really know but a couple of members had a few theories in this thread below. Over at the LL Despos, Shattuck and Logsdail all weighed in with a good analysis of why dimples occurred on one of my suits but unfortunately the LL seems to have deleted that discussion. It was very technical and I can't recall too clearly the explanations.

http://www.styleforum.net/t/219939/what-makes-the-shoulder-area-indent

 

[jefferyd]

Forward shoulders.

When seated, the shoulders can hunch forward and can cause the shoulder to twist, as is the case in the first photo posted. When standing naturally, if the twist occurs on one or both sides, it is because your shoulders are pitched more forward than was accounted for when making the pattern- this can occasionally be fixed by a tailor but it's not cheap. You will usually feel pressure on the shoulder point as well.

 

[Despos]



Forward shoulders.

When seated, the shoulders can hunch forward and can cause the shoulder to twist, as is the case in the first photo posted. When standing naturally, if the twist occurs on one or both sides, it is because your shoulders are pitched more forward than was accounted for when making the pattern- this can occasionally be fixed by a tailor but it's not cheap. You will usually feel pressure on the shoulder point as well.

The word in bold here is important. This issue is very difficult to correct. Requires proper diagnosis, highly skilled hands and is limited by the lack of outlets on the shoulder that might be available when making or on a finished custom garment but not on RTW.. Also depends on how severe the cause is. Can also be attributed to square shoulders, thick shoulders, prominent bones on your shoulders. Have even seen this caused by a jacket that was too tight under the arms and back due to prominent shoulder blades and it was creating a pull on the shoulder line.

 

[Dempsy444]

Thank you. These are incredibly clear and succinct answers. Heck, I even understood them, I think; One question I still have is how do you make sure the shoulder line lays clean throughout standing and sitting given that the shoulders can pitch forward so much when seated? It seems like standing and sitting, therefore, can present two very different shoulder shapes and I wonder how a shoulder line can remain consistent through both positions?

Alex