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Tie Back Blade Length - Can we discuss?

KlarkKent

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I have noticed a trend where otherwise very stylish guys dressed in finely tailored clothing tie their tie in a way where the back blade is longer than the front and very prominently showing. To me this looks very bad and "wrong", quickly catching my attention and diverting my gaze there over anything else in the outfit. To me it evokes the vibe of a child who has not yet learned how to properly tie a tie, or a slovenly dressed guy who tosses the tie on before work as part of a required uniform while wishing he was not required to don it. Two explanations are offered for this:

1) It is "sprezzatura" style. Something of a devil may care look of nonchalance and lack of effort in the details. There seems to be a major incongruence here to me when considering that the other elements of these outfits are immaculately coordinated and neat. Moreover, when a tie is introduced to an outfit it immediately establishes a certain formality, and therefore, a need for attention to details. I could understand wearing less formal articles of clothing with tailoring, or even wrinkled or slightly disheveled clothes to give off this sort of vibe, but the tie seems to me the very worst place to try to introduce this. It's like wearing a tuxedo with a wife beater underneath instead of a shirt. Additionally with the tie keeper eschewed, and effort and intention put forth to purposefully show both tie blades, any cover of nonchalance is instantly blown. All in all to me it comes off as a very bad type of affection.

2) This is necessary for a shorter gentleman who choses high rise trousers, as most ties are too long for this type of gentleman. I can commiserate with this argument, my knit ties are long enough where I need to make the back length almost as long as the front, however I take care to make sure it is at least half an inch to an inch shorter. To me having the back blade longer looks so bad that it is by far the worse choice of the other options: making the front a bit longer than normal (which with high rise trousers I think there is some space for this) or using a knot that requires a bit more fabric: stepping a four-in-hand up to a half windsor, a half windsor to a full windsor. I know many gentleman prefer small, skinny knots, but what is the point of a skinny knot with a perfect dimple if 99% of people immediately stare at the skinny blade sticking out and judge you as being incapable of getting the front blade longer. I would rather a fat politician style double windsor than that burden. As a last ditch, failing all else, at least you could use the keeper, keep the jacket closed...or even tuck the small blade into your trousers.

One may respond to this that as long as the wearer is not bothered by it, who cares?. A fair enough statement, however, in a world where the internet is full of the classic menswear warriors (you know which ones) dissecting outfits and rather dogmatically discussing things like collar point length, jacket button stance, trouser rise, and pant leg width etc., it is very strange that this basic detail gets a pass when it blatantly makes the wearer look juvenile and unkempt.

What do you all think?
 

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Thin White Duke

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You are spot on. It looks ****.

No less a figure than Brunello Cuccinelli himself said in an interview that he has to re-tie his tie seven times each morning to get the right amount of back blade showing below the front blade which is in fact the diametric opposite of what ‘sprezzatura’ actually means. Well dressed blokes’ clothes should speak for themselves without the need for such gimmicks.

When I brought this up to one esteemed member of this forum the reply was that he’s just not that arsed about his tie. I don’t believe it. This was a bloke who regularly displayed bespoke suits, so we must believe he spent hours researching and choosing fabrics, discussing details with his tailor, attending countless fittings to get the details right, assembling outfits daily with complementary shirts, shoes, pocket squares etc and after all that when it comes to ties … “aaaah *******!” I don’t believe it!

Same as when I admonish fellas attending a black tie event unshaved. “Oh I was just lazy”. So you carefully researched the origins of black tie, carefully assembled an exemplary traditional black tie rig with all accessories in place but then thought “shave? Naaah can’t be arsed”

They are both examples of people who have obviously complied with some of the oldest and most established traditions of menswear going back decades and then suddenly have a moment of weakness on not wanting to be seen as totally compliant so have to do something to show that they’re not all-in on menswear dogma and thus feel the need to put their individual spin on it. Usually the result is that it looks ****.
 

ppk

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OK. I hate it as much as all who have commented above. However, and you knew that was coming, those with short-torsoes have a serious dilemma - especially with the ridiculously long ties that are sold today. I am one of the aforementioned.

My choices are to let the wide blade hang down close to the nether regions or make the narrow blade longer. I chose to make the narrow blade longer, but I tuck it into my pants so it does it not show. This is the best solution I've been able to come up with.
 

KlarkKent

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OK. I hate it as much as all who have commented above. However, and you knew that was coming, those with short-torsoes have a serious dilemma - especially with the ridiculously long ties that are sold today. I am one of the aforementioned.

My choices are to let the wide blade hang down close to the nether regions or make the narrow blade longer. I chose to make the narrow blade longer, but I tuck it into my pants so it does it not show. This is the best solution I've been able to come up with.
I honestly think a really long front blade is better but at least you hide the back blade. Have you tried a knot that uses a bit more fabric?
 

ppk

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I honestly think a really long front blade is better but at least you hide the back blade. Have you tried a knot that uses a bit more fabric?
To each their own, but the longer front blade looks goofy to me, though not as goofy as a longer back blade.

Yup. Tried a double a windsor with disastrous results. It's documented in a fit pic on this site. I'll let you search for it.

I'm a four-in-hand or prince-albert knot guy.
 

KlarkKent

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To each their own, but the longer front blade looks goofy to me, though not as goofy as a longer back blade.

Yup. Tried a double a windsor with disastrous results. It's documented in a fit pic on this site. I'll let you search for it.

I'm a four-in-hand or prince-albert knot guy.
I we're in agreement that too long front is not ideal but world's better than a visible longer back.
 

ppk

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Short guys - you get your sleeves shortened? You get your hems shortened? If hiding the back blade isn’t working you can get your ties shortened too!
Not sure if that was directed at me, but for the record, I'm 6'1". I have freakishly long legs and a short torso.

I've never heard of shortening ties. I'll have to look into that.
 

Thin White Duke

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Not sure if that was directed at me, but for the record, I'm 6'1". I have freakishly long legs and a short torso.

I've never heard of shortening ties. I'll have to look into that.
Not specifically at you but I’m your height. I don’t have tie issues but I often do have to have strides and sleeves adjusted. Hey if you wanna look good you gotta fork over the cash! But seriously tie shortening is easily done by any competent seamstress / seamster!
 

ppk

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Not specifically at you but I’m your height. I don’t have tie issues but I often do have to have strides and sleeves adjusted. Hey if you wanna look good you gotta fork over the cash! But seriously tie shortening is easily done by any competent seamstress / seamster!
Thanks. I'm meeting my tailor on Tuesday. I'll definitely talk to him.
 

jack webb

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I have noticed a trend where otherwise very stylish guys dressed in finely tailored clothing tie their tie in a way where the back blade is longer than the front and very prominently showing. To me this looks very bad and "wrong", quickly catching my attention and diverting my gaze there over anything else in the outfit. To me it evokes the vibe of a child who has not yet learned how to properly tie a tie, or a slovenly dressed guy who tosses the tie on before work as part of a required uniform while wishing he was not required to don it. Two explanations are offered for this:

1) It is "sprezzatura" style. Something of a devil may care look of nonchalance and lack of effort in the details. There seems to be a major incongruence here to me when considering that the other elements of these outfits are immaculately coordinated and neat. Moreover, when a tie is introduced to an outfit it immediately establishes a certain formality, and therefore, a need for attention to details. I could understand wearing less formal articles of clothing with tailoring, or even wrinkled or slightly disheveled clothes to give off this sort of vibe, but the tie seems to me the very worst place to try to introduce this. It's like wearing a tuxedo with a wife beater underneath instead of a shirt. Additionally with the tie keeper eschewed, and effort and intention put forth to purposefully show both tie blades, any cover of nonchalance is instantly blown. All in all to me it comes off as a very bad type of affection.

2) This is necessary for a shorter gentleman who choses high rise trousers, as most ties are too long for this type of gentleman. I can commiserate with this argument, my knit ties are long enough where I need to make the back length almost as long as the front, however I take care to make sure it is at least half an inch to an inch shorter. To me having the back blade longer looks so bad that it is by far the worse choice of the other options: making the front a bit longer than normal (which with high rise trousers I think there is some space for this) or using a knot that requires a bit more fabric: stepping a four-in-hand up to a half windsor, a half windsor to a full windsor. I know many gentleman prefer small, skinny knots, but what is the point of a skinny knot with a perfect dimple if 99% of people immediately stare at the skinny blade sticking out and judge you as being incapable of getting the front blade longer. I would rather a fat politician style double windsor than that burden. As a last ditch, failing all else, at least you could use the keeper, keep the jacket closed...or even tuck the small blade into your trousers.

One may respond to this that as long as the wearer is not bothered by it, who cares?. A fair enough statement, however, in a world where the internet is full of the classic menswear warriors (you know which ones) dissecting outfits and rather dogmatically discussing things like collar point length, jacket button stance, trouser rise, and pant leg width etc., it is very strange that this basic detail gets a pass when it blatantly makes the wearer look juvenile and unkempt.

What do you all think?
I've neither seen nor heard of such a thing. To me the length of the rear blade is simply a function of the front one: you decide how far down the front will go, and whatever's left constitutes the rear. If this results in the rear eclipsing the front, maybe it is time to consider a shorter tie.
 

paxonus

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Another aspect of this trend is not using the loop on the back of the front blade to keep the back blade out of sight. This trend I actually like in all but the most formal of suits, e.g., pinstripes. Particularly with a sport coat, I prefer both blades showing.

But when the loop is used, and the back blade is longer than the front, it looks even worse than not using the loop
 

KlarkKent

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I've neither seen nor heard of such a thing. To me the length of the rear blade is simply a function of the front one: you decide how far down the front will go, and whatever's left constitutes the rear. If this results in the rear eclipsing the front, maybe it is time to consider a shorter tie.
I wholeheartedly agree, but fashion designer Sid Mashburn seems to not..
 

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dougc33

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Not sure if that was directed at me, but for the record, I'm 6'1". I have freakishly long legs and a short torso.

I've never heard of shortening ties. I'll have to look into that.
You can also get ties narrowed, but alas, not widened
 

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