The What Are You Wearing Today (WAYWT) Discussion Thread, Part II

[Salad]

In my very limited understanding as someone who is also looking at some NA turquoise silver jewelry, buckles, etc., a lot of NA goods were made to be sold to tourists of the SW via railroad. NA did not originally use arrows, thunderbirds, etc. in their designs. These motifs were used because they sold better than simple linear or crescent designs. Is it cultural appropriation if these items were made expressly for sale to tourists? In this case, I don't think so. I too want to be careful to not look disrespectful. Personally, I like simple designs like crescent or more geometric stamping on jewelry. No arrows for me. The crescent came here via the Spanish who got it from the Moors. Did NA artists culturally appropriate the Spanish who culturally appropriated Africans? Were does one draw the line?

I've been bugging my nephew to get in touch w/ his ex because she is NA and has some nice jewelry. Her father is also a NA lawyer for either Zuni or Hopi tribe. I want to ask her or her father about this as I think it would be interesting to hear their opinion on the matter. My nephew is like, "oh hell no, I'm not calling her", lol.

 

[dalevy]

Interesting. So as an artist I'm not allowed to sell a painting of mine which depicts anybody other than my own culture? Where's this rules book, anyway?

you’re going to leave us hanging? Let’s see this painting.

 

[mmmargeologist]

Well they blew up the chickenman in philly last night

 

[zissou]

Cultural appropriation may seem like an abstract idea. But it comes down to one group taking designs or styles from another distinctly different group, and selling it for a profit in such a way that does not benefit the original group. This is most egregious when a group that has historically been an oppressor copies the work of a traditionally marginalized people. So, if some of you white folks are feeling sensitive about people claiming cultural appropriation, that may be why. This is different from someone's feelings about what they, or anyone else, is wearing. What one person thinks is offensive may not be to someone else. In the end, if you're wondering if something is cultural appropriation, ask someone from the marginalized group from which it was taken.

Also googling chimayo weaving history I found this, which seems to say it’s not of native american origins but spanish, if anything they were the first ones to rip them off.

It originated from a Spanish pioneer who settled north from Newspain (now Mexico) in the 17th and early 18th centuries. Weaving techniques and knowledge have been passed down from generation to generation in a self-sufficient life in remote areas.
In 1918, a general store with Chimayo weaving products was opened, and after World War II, a Chimayo weaving specialty store was opened, and continues to this day.
It is partly influenced by the indigenous Native American culture, but has a completely different origin.

And the descendants of Gabriel Ortega, that Spanish pioneer, are still weaving today. It's identifiable as an important regional craft of the Albuquerque and Santa Fe area.

I’m not sure what running water or Covid infection rates have to do with cultural appropriation. I don’t believe anyone disputes the US government’s mistreatment of Native Americans

Cultural appropriation is just another example of something essential to Native American cultures that has been taken from them, like access to water and health care, among many other things.

I was actually thinking about this recently while looking at Red Rabbit Co.'s website. Would their jewelry be considered cultural appropriation? They are quite obviously inspired by Native American designs, but I'm pretty sure there is no Native involvement (correct me if I'm wrong about this).

Most definitely cultural appropriation, unless he asked permission from southwestern tribes/nations to use any symbols important to Native American cultures of the region or he is a member of any of the tribes.

In my very limited understanding as someone who is also looking at some NA turquoise silver jewelry, buckles, etc., a lot of NA goods were made to be sold to tourists of the SW via railroad. NA did not originally use arrows, thunderbirds, etc. in their designs. These motifs were used because they sold better than simple linear or crescent designs. Is it cultural appropriation if these items were made expressly for sale to tourists? In this case, I don't think so. I too want to be careful to not look disrespectful.

This is indeed not cultural appropriation. I own some Native American jewelry and art, not much... But I buy it all from Native American owned shops in the Four Corners region where I know the artists are paid a fair wage. I listen to the stories of the artist and piece, and that shapes my relationship with the object.

 

[whipcord]

So, if some of you white folks are feeling sensitive about people claiming cultural appropriation, that may be why. This is different from someone's feelings about what they, or anyone else, is wearing. What one person thinks is offensive may not be to someone else. In the end, if you're wondering if something is cultural appropriation, ask someone from the marginalized group from which it was taken.

Oh, yeah, here we go again, bad whitey.

 

[OccultaVexillum]

Yes. Because we are the classic oppressor.
It’s not something to be offended by, it’s something to acknowledge and learn from.

it’s pretty surprising to have this conversation still, but if somebody from an oppressed group (really, any group outside of your own) tells you they are offended then it’s on you to hear that and adjust, not on them to “stop being offended”.

 

[whipcord]

Yes. Because we are the classic oppressor.

You can speak for yourself. The oppression and repression of people throughout the history of mankind transcends skin color, culture and creed. Nobody can look at another person's color of skin and deduce anything. That in itself is the very definition of racism.

 

[OccultaVexillum]

yes, every culture has played, or does play, an opressor role. But white men are undoubtedly the apex opressor. Thats undeniable. I as a white man benefit greatly from the very fact that I’m a white man. If you’re white, then so do you, and it’s insane to think otherwise.

 

[nahneun]

did the italians culturally appropriate noodles by making pasta and not crediting the chinese? did the koreans appropriate american culture by making kpop?

 

[LA Guy]

Hi guys, we are going to limit the discussion here specifically to cultural appropriation in the context of fashion.

If you guy feel like having a broader discussion, you may start a thread in Current Events. This is the last post on the subject here. All further posts on cultural appropriation outside of the very specific context of fashion will be moved to a thread in the Current Events forum, and you will be able to find it there.

Thanks.

 

[hoodog]

Have a great Monday everyone!

Kapital - EG - Nike

 

[Old Red]

Kapital - EG - Nike

I was going to guess that was a Mister Freedom shirt underneath.

 

[sugarbutch]

...

Impossible to tell whether sarcasm or idiocy.

 

[noob in 89]

Spoiler

When I go downtown /
I always wear a corduroy suit, /
'cause it's made of a hundred gutters /
that the rain can run right through….

 

[Serad]

?

Yak wool turtleneck by Massimo Alba, LVC jeans, rest is RRL.